Denver - Promotional Bull Question

[OKshorthorn]

I have gone back and read several thread from the past few years about the bulls at Denver, one common theme seems to be that they are all fitted so well that they hide structural issues. Whether or not there actually are structural issues it seems because of the fitting job, everyone is at least skeptical.

We currently have a bull calf that initially everyone who has seem him says to keep him as a bull. One gentleman told me "if you cut him, i'll cut you." He is extremely young and obviously a long shot in my opinion. But, in the event that we do decide to take him to denver as a 1 year 4 month old bull in 2013, I don't want to fit him.

I curious to see all of your opinions on doing something like that. What if we were to clip him, get him up every morning, wash and blow him, comb him out and put him on display?

We have never taken a bull to Denver, and we wouldn't do it unless we thought he was sure something special. If we were confident in his muscle expression and soundness, why wouldn't it benefit us present him in a way that shows evidence of that without the skepticism of a fitting job.

I think that casual lookers would not be as impressed with him next to a bull that had been fitted by a group of 4 for an hour, but the cattle people, the ones that are going to purchase semen based on what they see, would appreciate the honesty whether they liked him or not.

Your thoughts?

 

[flyintale]

I like seeing bulls all fitted and fancy, but I love seeing pics of them in their workin clothes. I think you will have those that would stick their nose up with him not being fitted, but you'll have just as many people be completely opposite and commend you on having the nerve to not fit him.  If you have enough confidence in this bull and believe he is great enough to be one of the 'next best'.....go for it!  I'm the kind that is all for taking chances. 

I would love to see pictures

 

[countyagent]

Go ahead and fit him out.  A bull with a good haircut will always draw more attention than one without and getting attention at Denver is the main goal.  To prove that your bull is indeed what you say he is (sound and stout) find a place to take him and walk him.  Once an animal gets into motion, the truth will come out about structure and true power, no matter how good the clip job.  You could even advertise that he will be shown on the move at a certain time every day so people are looking forward to the demonstration.  To a guy like me who is a structure freak I would be more appreciative of a walking demonstration rather than seeing one in his "working clothes"  

 

[Mueller Show Cattle]

Redwine, it is a double edged sword. I agree, I don't like to see calves fitted when I look at them so I can see there muscle mass and depth better, hair does hide flaws. So I usually try and go look at calves a couple days before a sale so they are not usually groomed up. But on the other side, if he is not groomed up, there could be other bulls that are groomed up and looked nicer than yours cause yours is not groomed up which could effect semen sales, even though you could have the better bull structurally.

 

[kfacres]

sounds good to me...

few years ago rendition was on display, unfit, and really didn't have enough hair to be there anyways... was the highlight in many people's eyes...  Atleast those that know cattle.

 

[Dozer45]

Could you photograph him beting fitted and have that avaliable while he is on display? This would show you have nothing to hide but will somewhat show that he can look fancy.

I say go for it! I do like seeing bulls "all dressed up" but would trust an unfitted one a little more.

 

[Dyer Show cattle]

I think if your heading to Denver with him you have to get him fitted. I myself like looking at bulls unfitted. But standing next to a whole row of fitted up bulls not many will stop and look at him. I think it would be great if there were a whole group unfitted but that will never happen. Personally I like seeing the bulls and pics from Denver but usually never buy any semen until I see them in person at stud. And usually I dont buy any yearling semen, I usually wait to see them as 2 and 3 year olds before buying anything.

 

[OKshorthorn]

Thanks guys for the responses. It's interesting to hear the different views just between you guys!

From what you guys have said, I think it would be a good idea to post a time every day that you are going to show the bull on the move, that's probably the biggest thing. What if you also posted a couple days during the show that you would have him displayed only in his working clothes? Would that be a good idea? I agree it might be a little risky to not have him fitted out next to all of the other bulls that are. But if you were to advertise maybe 2 days during the whole thing that you wouldn't have him fitted, that may be something to think about.

I have a video that I took of the little guy I mentioned in my earlier post that I am going to link here. We are excited about him, I guess cautiously optimistic would be the better phrase, as he is young and there are so many great bulls and calves out there. I don't want anyone to get the idea that we think this little calf is the next great thing right now, we just see some potential in him. The point of my original post was more in general, not necessarily this calf, but at some point I sure hope we are able to raise a bull calf that we can take to Denver and be competitive. I would like your opinions on him though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3K4sEmIEfo

 

[twistedhshowstock]

First, very nice JPJ calf there.  I understand what your saying about being cautiously optimistic, but I think he has potential as well.
On to the fitting question, I say fit him.  One thing for sure is if you want to be competitive then you have to play the game, and fitting is part of the game in Denver.  I think the big thing is dont try to hide him when he isnt fitted, and definately get him out on the move.  Even an unfit calf can look good standing still and then fall apart when you get him moving!

 

[kfacres]

being a shorthorn person, I sometimes wonder if we have plenty of JPJ out there already/// what's on the bottom side to set him apart from the field?  I guess the main question is, yes no doubt he is a unique made calf, for your operation, but what's he got that nobody else has?  Face it, going to take tons of work, and tons of $$ to get him to the yards... and from there you'd better sell tons of semen out of him...

 

[twistedhshowstock]

I think there are a ton of JPJ calves out there, but not a ton that are being promoted heavily to the clubby people, probably because they lack the overall mass sometimes. Personally I think the JPJ genetics are some of the best for breeding to clubby heifers as they tend to generally be low birthweight and calving ease. To me thats what sets this bull apart, I think he has a little more of the clubby look than some of JPJs and I think if they take him and promote calving ease(of course I am just assuming he is because of JPJ) then that is where his niche would be.

 

[kfacres]

I think there are a ton of JPJ calves out there, but not a ton that are being promoted heavily to the clubby people, probably because they lack the overall mass sometimes. Personally I think the JPJ genetics are some of the best for breeding to clubby heifers as they tend to generally be low birthweight and calving ease. To me thats what sets this bull apart, I think he has a little more of the clubby look than some of JPJs and I think if they take him and promote calving ease(of course I am just assuming he is because of JPJ) then that is where his niche would be.

are the jpj genetics truly thick enough?  or are they just big bodied? 

Sure, this baby calf is thick, and cool- how many little clubby bred bull calves aren't... I can't think of many...  It's once their milk fat wears off, that the problems arise..

I'm not knocking this calf, just trying to get someone thinking like I would be if I were in that situation...

 

[OKshorthorn]

being a shorthorn person, I sometimes wonder if we have plenty of JPJ out there already/// what's on the bottom side to set him apart from the field?  I guess the main question is, yes no doubt he is a unique made calf, for your operation, but what's he got that nobody else has?  Face it, going to take tons of work, and tons of $$ to get him to the yards... and from there you'd better sell tons of semen out of him...

The dam of this calf is somewhat unique. She is sired by Ka'Ba' Cowboy, and is out of a Ka'Ba Keystone cow. I agree with you to a certain extent about JPJ, just as I feel the same way about Bloodstone and Sonny in the shorthorn world or even Monopoly with the black cattle. You need to produce something that genetically sets himself apart from the field, and I feel like this calf may be a step in the right direction for us, even if its not specifically him but a daughter or son that may produce something special.

 

[OKshorthorn]

I think there are a ton of JPJ calves out there, but not a ton that are being promoted heavily to the clubby people, probably because they lack the overall mass sometimes. Personally I think the JPJ genetics are some of the best for breeding to clubby heifers as they tend to generally be low birthweight and calving ease. To me thats what sets this bull apart, I think he has a little more of the clubby look than some of JPJs and I think if they take him and promote calving ease(of course I am just assuming he is because of JPJ) then that is where his niche would be.

He was an ET calf, we weighed him about 8 hours after he was born and he topped out at 82 pounds. His mom has sure raised some good clubby style calves for us. We got her flushed to Vortec, JPJ, and Tuscaloosa prior to her being injured and we had to put her down at age 14.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Trauches Eukie Bull,Damn  Proud (they dont know Im a Crook),and Jazzman are 3 Clubby Jazzes out there being promoted allready.-Being Red-he needs to be in showrig-do a Cattle .Com  walk video like they did with Smilin Bob,Womanizer,Sahara and others:itll get seen 1000 plus times after the fact.-Its a waste of time to take one to Denver that isnt in top notch form-theyll know in person if hes good or not-but making appointments to walk him etc is probably overkill-too much else going on. O0

 

[countyagent]

nice calf