Detecting problems

[Okie Boy]

I could use some info. Could someone point me to info or discuss here about gomer bulls or similar options. I have a terrible time detecting heats after AIing once. My cows just do not communicate with me about heats for the second cycle. Most of the cows just don't seem to respond to a cow in heat and hardly scratch the estrusallert tag. I had one last evening that was slightly scratched, she was butting some of the others around and jumping on the a little. I put her in a pen with a yearling bull and she was immediately receptive. I am thinking about some kind of bull/detector. A past post talked about a "ring"? or something like that. Thanks for reading all the way to the end here, It is really frustrating me. Steve

 

[Okie Boy]

WOW eight hits on this thread in six minutes this place is smoking!

 

[kanshow]

Do you have a mature bull on your place?    We found that having a mature bull nearby increases the heat activity..  I dont' know if the cows are actually cycling silently w/out it or if he actually brings more in..        We run them fence/fence - good fences and lots of electric wire.  

 

[red]

I'm not up on gomer bulls so won't address that issue.
Are you on a really good balanced mineral program? sometimes it makes all the difference in the world.
Also, if possible spend some time just watching your cows. I remember a large Maine breeder that they had watch roatations where people would just look for heats. I've been know to sit on bales just observing. also can see the cows from my office wiindow & can detect any monkey business. The other night I saw a cow being ridden so went out & just stay for a while to see if it was a random act or actual heat. Must have bored cows that night!
Best of luck!
Red

 

[knabe]

to me, the most interesting part of your post was "I put her in a pen with a yearling bull "

was she in a pen with other animals you want to detect in heat?

sometimes proximity helps with human detection.  a full belly probably does too.

 

[kanshow]

I agree with Red..    Watch watch watch. 

 

[Jill]

You still have to watch, but a gomer bull will work, we have also used a steer that we banded as a yearling.

 

[kanshow]

You should also make a note as to which cows are doing the riding because they'll usually be in the next day.   

 

[CAB]

I don't know where to start, but the heat doesn't just wham, here I am, ready for you bull. Each cow will be somewhat different. That is why it is almost an art to be a good heat detector. The cows will vary B/C of the pecking order, B/C of their own personal strength of heat and so on. It is somewhat more of a ritual that includes phases.
1- some cows/heifers start to ball up to a day in advance
2- up to 6-12 hours pre standing heat, they will head but other cattle, but will not stand.
3-standing heat 12-18hours possible.
4- head butting again.
5- go into a calm state of being, or plain old wore out from performing the ritual, THIS IS WHEN TO INSEMENATE.
  All of this takes time to watch and learn. There are a lot of "CRUTCHES" to help get cows/heifers bred, but there is no substitute for time spent and a great heat detector. There's nothing wrong with using these crutches either, but when we read about some of the great AI conception rates, I'll promise you that we are hearing from people that are or have a great detector working with or for them. I will have 34 out 36 calves born AI this spring, but that is not all on 1st cycle and it involves a great amount of time. I have used many gomer bulls in the past and absolutely love them, but I don't have near as many cows that I used to have, so can't justify having a gomer bull around. I now have been breeding 1st calf heifers on natural heats and cidring cows, then breeding off of heat detection. I hope that this helps you in knowing some suttle signs of cows/heifers heats. Good Luck,Sincerely, Cab

 

[Bawndoh]

You can also band a calfs testicles high up into his belly, in otherwords, band his sack, so that his testicles are really tight to his body.  This makes the testicles too hot to store viable semen, so he is basically infertile.  Dont just try this and assume he is infertile.  Perhaps get him semen tested to be sure he is sterile.  This is another option.  The "male" being around really helps the natural process of chemicals/horomones/ferimones to do their magic and get the cows more active.  They will basically probably fight to get the males attention so that they can get bred.  All animals need that male/female bonding.  If you have all cows, and not one male around, things can get stale fast because they have no "boy" to fight over.  Lol.

 

[Okie Boy]

Lots of good info thank you  
Knabe  Yes she was in a pen of yearling to three year olds. all of whom had been bread once. the bull was able to get to a short common fence ,they drink from the same tank but he was not responsive until we put them together
Time     withkids in school and wife and I both working it is a luxury.
Its not hard to see the cattle come in heat the first time through but the second, it just seems that there are not many cows interested.
I do have several bulls, more than my size operation justifies,but the yearling is the only one within 200 yards.
Steve

 

[knabe]

They will basically probably fight to get the males attention so that they can get bred.  All animals need that male/female bonding.  If you have all cows, and not one male around, things can get stale fast because they have no "boy" to fight over.  Lol.

the horsebarn in college?

 

[Bawndoh]

They will basically probably fight to get the males attention so that they can get bred.  All animals need that male/female bonding.  If you have all cows, and not one male around, things can get stale fast because they have no "boy" to fight over.  Lol.

the horsebarn in college?

??  Not sure what you are asking?

 

[CAB]

I've never heard of banding the testicles close to the body, but know that bulls with one testicle up inside or next to their belly can sure enough settle cows. I would sure semen ck the bull if you try this method of making a gomer bull. I always used to make sidewinders out of a late born calf or bought a jersey gomer. The way to have your cake and eat to, is to put a penal block in your clean up bull, use him for your gomer bull then when you get ready to clean up cows, take the block out. I have seen this method done many times successfully in a herd that I use to AI for. It would be best to get an experienced person to put the block in IMO. I think that it would also be best if your wife/girlfriend gave the orders as to putting the block in. It makes me kinda squeamish just thinking about that operation. Please forgive me.

 

[knabe]

They will basically probably fight to get the males attention so that they can get bred.  All animals need that male/female bonding.  If you have all cows, and not one male around, things can get stale fast because they have no "boy" to fight over.  Lol.

the horsebarn in college?

??  Not sure what you are asking?

at the horsebarn in college, it's basically 95% female.  it's better than church for that kind of ratio.  the horsebarn is pretty catty sometimes, and when a guy shows up, oh heck, even i can't finish that one.

 

[CAB]

Knabe, that's funny. My cousin has a boy that we keep teasing about going to horse shows to chase girls. He doesn't know whether to believe us or as of yet he keeps blowing us off. Can't tell if we're serious. I'll bet he gets around to cking the myth out. LOL.

 

[bradycreek]

We have used a steer as a heat detector. When I notice the steer following around a certain cow its usually time to pay closer attention. ;D
good luck
dh

 

[Bawndoh]

They will basically probably fight to get the males attention so that they can get bred.  All animals need that male/female bonding.  If you have all cows, and not one male around, things can get stale fast because they have no "boy" to fight over.  Lol.

the horsebarn in college?

??  Not sure what you are asking?

at the horsebarn in college, it's basically 95% female.  it's better than church for that kind of ratio.  the horsebarn is pretty catty sometimes, and when a guy shows up, oh heck, even i can't finish that one.

Oh, I got it...lol.  Yeah around here, it is like that with "riggers".  The young men go to work on oil rigs for weeks or months at a time.  They joke that when a 55gallon barrel starts to look good, it is time for a break!!  (clapping). 

As for bradycreeks comment.  A steer should work, but many of their male horomones have been altered or are not there because of castration.  Also, steers can get REAL lazy!  I suppose an "it" is better than nothing.

 

[knabe]

a lot of riggers used to be guys that had served time, as it was tough to find people to do that job.  it's a little different nowadays.  one rigger years ago who necked for for my grandmother's well told me how you could tell if someone served time.  oop hijacking.

my steers were always better at heat detection than the females.

 

[kanshow]

Horse barn ???  LOL!!!   

The guy that I learned to AI from told us that the best heat detecter is a cow in her last month before calving.