determining whether a heifer is a freemartin

[hedgesjp1985]

I found a blue roan irishman by a double vision cow she was a twin with a bull the vet checked her with a pencil and said she will breed.  How can I check if she can breed, because I was always told a twin heifer with a bull calf would be sterile.  Any thoughts?

 

[frostback]

You can do a blood test and then be sure before you put a bunch of time and feed in her. Google it to find the companies that do it.

 

[Steer4Caddy]

There is a 90% chance she won't breed.  We have had one that did but one this year did not have a reproductive tract when I palated her as a supposed to be bred.

 

[DL]

You can do a blood test and then be sure before you put a bunch of time and feed in her. Google it to find the companies that do it.

The blood test will only tell you if there are male cells or DNA present in the heifer and not if she has all her parts and pieces, so it is likely not worth the cost. As s4c said 90% of the heifer to twins are freemartins - but if the vet checked her and said she might breed you might be in the 10%. How old is the heifer -if she is 4 months or so you might be well off to have someone (with little arms) palpate or ultrasound her - then you would know if she has all the right parts and potentially could breed

 

[cowman 52]

Have seen the pencil test work just fine.  Me think you are looking for something you won't find.

 

[frostback]

You can do a blood test and then be sure before you put a bunch of time and feed in her. Google it to find the companies that do it.

The blood test will only tell you if there are male cells or DNA present in the heifer and not if she has all her parts and pieces, so it is likely not worth the cost. As s4c said 90% of the heifer to twins are freemartins - but if the vet checked her and said she might breed you might be in the 10%. How old is the heifer -if she is 4 months or so you might be well off to have someone (with little arms) palpate or ultrasound her - then you would know if she has all the right parts and potentially could breed

So why even develop the test if it doesn't tell you anything useful?

 

[dwcc]

I know a lot of dairy guys use the pencil test. I wouldn't be afraid  especially if your vet said she should.

 

[DL]

You can do a blood test and then be sure before you put a bunch of time and feed in her. Google it to find the companies that do it.

The blood test will only tell you if there are male cells or DNA present in the heifer and not if she has all her parts and pieces, so it is likely not worth the cost. As s4c said 90% of the heifer to twins are freemartins - but if the vet checked her and said she might breed you might be in the 10%. How old is the heifer -if she is 4 months or so you might be well off to have someone (with little arms) palpate or ultrasound her - then you would know if she has all the right parts and potentially could breed

So why even develop the test if it doesn't tell you anything useful?

Actually wondered the same thing - I think it might be useful  when you ultrasounded at 30 days or so and found twins but the cow calved only one heifer calf - the test would tell you if there was mixing of blood between twins and if the other twin was a bull - otherwise it appears to be pretty much a test looking for a use

 

[Lucky_P]

Next door neighbors called us over on Saturday to have a look at a cow that had been laboring for a couple of hours with no progress. 
Popped the amnionic sac, and felt a breech presentation - and it was immediately evident that it had been dead for a while.  While I was getting my chains out of the truck, she went down and shot out this small bull calf that looked like it had stopped development and died a couple of months ago. 
It was so small that I told my wife (also a DVM) , "better check for a twin" - and, indeed, there was a nice, fresh, live heifer - normal size - that came squirting out backwards with almost no assistance.
In all likelihood, she'll be a freemartin, but since she was contained in a separate placental sac, there's a possibility (though small) that she'll be OK.

 

[frostback]

http://magissues.farmprogress.com/AMA/AM03Mar07/ama028.pdf

I have called 4 places and 2 more vets. All have told me that is the Y chromosome is present that enough transfer was done to make the heifer a none breeder or a Freemartin hence the name of the test and condition. Looks like it has a purpose after all.

 

[hedgesjp1985]

Thanks everyone ill probably get the blood test done and if she cant breed I might still show her but I will just keep her for beef

 

[DL]

http://magissues.farmprogress.com/AMA/AM03Mar07/ama028.pdf

I have called 4 places and 2 more vets. All have told me that is the Y chromosome is present that enough transfer was done to make the heifer a none breeder or a Freemartin hence the name of the test and condition. Looks like it has a purpose after all.

Perhaps I should have been clearer when I said
The blood test will only tell you if there are male cells* (* ie Y chromosome) or DNA present in the heifer and not if she has all her parts and pieces, so it is likely not worth the cost.[b/] what that means is that there was communication between the two placentas with mixing of blood between the two calves - a heifer calf with XX and XY cells is called a chimera. The presence of XY cells from the stem cell population seems to decrease over time - therefore timing of the sample is important bc an XX in an older heifer might be a false negative (ie she is a freemartin but the test doesn't tell you than.

I have used the test and found basically that it is an expensive way to confirm what I already knew. Over 90% of the beef heifer twins to a bull are sterile - if the test tube test suggests she is a freemartin your odds are even less that she will breed. If the test tube test suggests that she is OK I wouldn't waste my money on the blood test - esp if she is an older heifer (ie > several weeks) and you intend to keep her and show her anyway - have your vet palpate her to make sure she has all the right parts in the right places. I have had clients pull blood, get XX results on a heifer twin to a bull and when we palpate her she is missing a uterus or an ovary etc - the heifer was a freemartin but the test gave a false negative  result. I always palpate heifer twins to a bull

I can see a use for the blood test in twins from high producing, high genetic merit. The frequency of twinning in dairy cows, esp high producing dairy cows has dramatically increased over the last several decades and the increase in world wide  - twinning rate in beef is generally considered < 1% however in dairy it can be upward of 10 % and has increased dramatically - these calves removed from their dam at birth can be easily bled within the appropriate time frame.

I have found limited to no use for this test in beef herds

 

[ZNT]

Thanks everyone ill probably get the blood test done and if she cant breed I might still show her but I will just keep her for beef

If she is good enough to show, and you are planning anyway to feed her past breeding age, just kick her out with a bull for 30-45 days once she is old enough.  If you do not have an easy calving bull, just ultrasound her 30 days after pulling her from the bull.  If bred, abort her and rebreed her the way you want her bred.  If not bred, continue on the same path of freezer beef.

 

[HF CHARS]

Thanks everyone ill probably get the blood test done and if she cant breed I might still show her but I will just keep her for beef

If she is good enough to show, and you are planning anyway to feed her past breeding age, just kick her out with a bull for 30-45 days once she is old enough.  If you do not have an easy calving bull, just ultrasound her 30 days after pulling her from the bull.  If bred, abort her and rebreed her the way you want her bred.  If not bred, continue on the same path of freezer beef.

I would just palpate her before you breed her,,,,you knock a calf out,she might not breed back on time,,,,I think breeding one to knock it out is bad advice,,,,,thoughts DL ??

 

[BTDT]

I would agree that knocking out a calf can do damage. I had bulls get out into heifer calves, and one got bred. So I waited 35 days and ultrasounded her, then gave her lute to abort. She never did breed after that.  I know many folks abort heifers with no problem, but to do it when there are other options seem to be playing with fire.

I just had a vet out to palpate a possible twin heifer. I had 2 cows calve at the same time and had 2 bull calves and a heifer. I am 99% cure the heifer was a twin. The vet said she felt a cervix, uterus, and ovaries. I guess time will tell.
(The heifer is 5 1/2 mos old)

 

[ZNT]

I agree that aborting one is not the #1 option, but many people do not have a proven easy calving bull easlily available.  Cutting one out does not sound like a better option. 

JMO - but I do think bull breeding in this kind of situation would be the cheapest, and most certain way to determine if she is a free-martin or not after a vet has done an initial evaluation on her.