Dirty Picture of a different kind

[showsteerdlux]

O dang. I didn't realize he was that bad. Of course he is a nine year old bull so that can be a contributing factor. How bad is his clone?

 

[justme]

I seen them both.  His clone looked 110% better.  Heatwave looked sad.  Even acted like he was in pain when he tried to move.

 

[KDSC]

heres Ali

 

[red]

actually very similar to picture at breeders.

Red

 

[Jill]

Here is the pic of Irish Whiskey on Genetic Horizons website.

 

[CPL]

O dang. I didn't realize he was that bad. Of course he is a nine year old bull so that can be a contributing factor. How bad is his clone?

I have seen 9 year old bulls who look alot better than that. I've seen 16 year old cows still going. I think the only age issue is that he doesn't possess longevity.

Jill, are your pastures that green? If they are, please PM me your management protocol because I think we're doing something wrong. 

 

[showsteerdlux]

I to have seen nine year old bulls that were better than that but I was saying considering that he has been half crippled all his life something has to give when they start getting that old.

 

[Jill]

This is what our pasture looks like, but our picture was taken by a 7 year old in the pasture.  I would guess the picture of Irish Whiskey was taken in a yard (due to the dandelions) by a professional photographer, don't see your point I guess.

 

[CPL]

don't see your point I guess.

I guess my point is people see these pictures and assume "wow thats them in their working clothes". That boy is not in his working clothes, I bet if you took a soil sample from the grass he's eating, from yours, and mine- His soil would be better. Besides that, I would also say with confidence that he's not just on grass. Most of the clubby bulls dont have any selection criteria. I don't see how most of them would ever perform in the real world.

By the way, you do have a very beautiful place!  (clapping)

 

[garybob]

If that's a Yard, then, Somebody forgot to Mow.The grass is up to a mature Bull's knees. In the early Springtime, We have Dandelions in our Fescue Pastures, in this part of the World.
He ain't red. He ain't roan. I do like his "Mature Phenotype", and I wouldn't just assume He wouldn't "cut it" in the Commercial Industry. He's more "the type" than the "Famous" Bulls at Hawkeye.

;DGB

 

[TJ]

O dang. I didn't realize he was that bad. Of course he is a nine year old bull so that can be a contributing factor. How bad is his clone?

I have seen 9 year old bulls who look alot better than that. I've seen 16 year old cows still going. I think the only age issue is that he doesn't possess longevity.

Jill, are your pastures that green? If they are, please PM me your management protocol because I think we're doing something wrong. 

I am not saying that these pics weren't photo shopped, but a few things that I want to point out...

If I am correct, Cane Ridge Farms in Paris, KY owned Irish Whiskey.  I've been there & the background of the 1st photo in this thread looks exactly like Cane Ridge. 

Yes, pastures in KY get that green & tall.  See my picture below.  It was taken in the summer of 2006. 

 

[TJ]

3rdly, Irish Whiskey? 

 

[Jill]

I guess I'm missing something here, I put the picture up just to show how different he looks in the 2 pictures.  I don't consider Irish Whiskey to be clubby in the least bit, I consider him to be a breeding bull that produces phenomenal half blood females when mated to Angus cows.  I understand he is a carrier, but I really think that doesn't make him total trash.

 

[kanshow]

I guess I'm missing the point too.. I've always liked this bull and the offspring I've seen.    He has a place in the industry, he's not for everyone, use him if you want or not.   

guess my point is people see these pictures and assume "wow thats them in their working clothes". That boy is not in his working clothes, I bet if you took a soil sample from the grass he's eating, from yours, and mine- His soil would be better. Besides that, I would also say with confidence that he's not just on grass.

  You ought to see our bulls in May - early July when they are on Brome & then native bluestem pasture - even while breeding cows.     

 

[showsteerdlux]

TJ. what is the bull that was GC at the Royal and what is the clf in the pic from Kentucky? Both nice calves from the pics.

 

[TJ]

TJ. what is the bull that was GC at the Royal and what is the clf in the pic from Kentucky? Both nice calves from the pics.

Thanks! 

The bull is no relation to Irish Whiskey that I am aware of, and if they are related, it is waaaaaay back.  However, I was absolutely blown away when I opened this thread & for a moment, I found myself wondering if that was my bull's picture at the beginning of this thread!!     I knew it wasn't my place, but I honestly thought that maybe it was a picture of him while he was out in Missouri this fall, getting prepped for the KC show, that is, until I saw "Irish Whiskey" under the pic.   Even the white spot on the pizzle matches almost perfectly!!  Talk about doing a double take... WOW!!   

My bull won Percentage Grand Champion Lowline at Kansas City.  He is a 1/2 Lowline (Fullblood Sire) X Tarentaise (Purebred Heifer).  His dam traces back to an extra nice Chi X female who produced many good calves for us in the 80's & 90's.  I think that his dam's sire (also a purebred) had a touch of Simmental & Chi several generations back.    My bull weighed 64 lbs. @ birth, had a 4.5 yearling frame score, & 38 cm testicles @ 11 months.  He wasn't broke 45 days before the KC show & he went off feed for a while during the breaking process, but he still looked pretty good @ KC.  BTW, he was 17 months old in the American Royal Show picture.

The heifer is a 2006 fullblood Lowline ET calf.   


   

 

[Jill]

Looked like they had a really good turnout for the Lowline show in Denver, impressive numbers.

 

[TJ]

Looked like they had a really good turnout for the Lowline show in Denver, impressive numbers.

Yes, the turnout was pretty good.  I didn't go to Denver this year... I sold my fullblood calves to a guy in Texas, so I decided to take them to the Houston Lowline Show instead... but, I was told that 200+ were entered in the NWSS Lowline show.  I'm hearing that Houston already has well over 100 Lowline enteries & many of the breeder who attended Denver are also going to attend Houston.  Win or lose, it will be fun competing against the Denver Champs @ Houston!!

BTW, my buddy's Railroad site has really taken off recently... he's sold a lot of items & getting new items in all the time...    http://www.railroadkeys.com/
Now that his site is under control, we are working on my site.  We should have it finished soon.         

 

[DLD]

Well, looks like I'm on a roll tonight, so I feel compelled to make a few comments here.

First of all, I don't really understand. Why title a thread "Dirty Picture..." and post a pic of someone else's bull in it?  It's common knowledge that the bull's a PHA carrier. If I remember correctly his owners were the very first to step up to the plate and publicly acknowledge that fact. As Jill said, that doesn't make the bull trash. He has alot to offer, and has sired many PHA free offspring that can pass along those good things in a clean package. If you question his value or impact on the industry, please refer to the sale and show results of his offspring, even just this fall and winter. It's certainly up to each of us to think what we want of the bull, and to use him and/or his offspring or not, but even if you choose not to, why trash him just for entertainment?

I'm pretty sure that very few of the people that use Heat Wave will be shocked at that pic of him. Years of almost constant collection at bull studs is very hard on any bull, and nobody's arguing that he was always straight enough. It's not unheard of for reasonably sound ones to get hurt in a single collection, not at all uncommon for those collected regularly to get crippled up in some way. Had he been breeding 30 cows a season naturally in a pasture somewhere, he almost certainly wouldn't look like that.

TJ, that is an uncanny resembance between those pics of IW and your bull. Certainly made me study 'em awhile.

 

[Telos]

Well, looks like I'm on a roll tonight, so I feel compelled to make a few comments here.

First of all, I don't really understand. Why title a thread "Dirty Picture..." and post a pic of someone else's bull in it?  It's common knowledge that the bull's a PHA carrier. If I remember correctly his owners were the very first to step up to the plate and publicly acknowledge that fact. As Jill said, that doesn't make the bull trash. He has alot to offer, and has sired many PHA free offspring that can pass along those good things in a clean package. If you question his value or impact on the industry, please refer to the sale and show results of his offspring, even just this fall and winter. It's certainly up to each of us to think what we want of the bull, and to use him and/or his offspring or not, but even if you choose not to, why trash him just for entertainment?

I'm pretty sure that very few of the people that use Heat Wave will be shocked at that pic of him. Years of almost constant collection at bull studs is very hard on any bull, and nobody's arguing that he was always straight enough. It's not unheard of for reasonably sound ones to get hurt in a single collection, not at all uncommon for those collected regularly to get crippled up in some way. Had he been breeding 30 cows a season naturally in a pasture somewhere, he almost certainly wouldn't look like that.

TJ, that is an uncanny resembance between those pics of IW and your bull. Certainly made me study 'em awhile.

DLD, That was very well said. Thanks for such a courageous comment. Many a good Maine cattle which are clean go back to PHA carrier cattle. For the most part, it is the phenotype that these cattle bring to the table. I am not around these cattle enough to know whatever else they contribute (bad or good), but they in many cases appear to add overall dimension and muscle to the equation. Just look at Denver this year. Your top sellers, Maine and Chi Went back to carrier cattle and they were well recieved.

DLD, also your theory about carriers, just happen to have this look, is becoming to make more sense to me now(even though carriers seem more apt to have it). I believe 5-10 years from now we will know what value these free cattle from carriers will have. Some breeders probably already know.

The main problem I see with PHA is that you will have to constantly be aware of it's presence within the population and it will always have to be policed with a stamp of approval from Dr. Beever's lab. Also, who from now on is going to rely on pedigree? I think those who trust being clean by parentage, might fall prey to foolish thinking.

TJ -  Your bull looks to have more capacity then Irish Whiskey. Nice, very nice bull!