Disqualified

[chambero]

Alright.  You apparently aren't doing anything but speculating.

In regards to use of the term smuggling, you were the one that insinuated it was just like last year.  And it's pretty well known what happened then.  

First of all, I don't KNOW anything about this case but I do know the family.  And they are one of the few that do things themselves.  Doug isn't and doesn't need a jockey.  He does sell some calves, some of which he buys, some of which he raises.

In regards to your question about entry, I'd venture almost everyone showing at Arizona enters the same calves for Louisville, Kansas City, etc.  And some of those calves that get show there and don't do well probably then get taken on to Arizona.  And per Arizona's rules, you can show a steer at any of the aforementioned shows and take them to Arizona, as long as they aren't a terminal sale.

They may have (and probably did) done something wrong.  I'm just surprised.  And I'd be shocked if it involved the actual entry itself.  But it wouldn't be the first time I've ever been wrong.

But admit what you KNOW vs. what you are speculating in these cases.  If you do know tell us.  If you don't, admit as much.  At least the National Western is clear about what and why they do these kinds of things.

 

[yousesteers]

Royal is not terminal unless you make the sale which used to be first and second in class i

 

[OqRanch]

<cowboy>  Someone educate me.  Exactly what is a terminal show?

 

[herefordfootball]

<cowboy>  Someone educate me.  Exactly what is a terminal show?

Steers go by by. Its there last show. :'(

 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

I agree with you Chambero, I've known and been around Doug Satree for many years. Could he have made a mistake? Yes,he could have. Did he intentionally make a mistake? No, I don't think so.He has far to much to lose than getting a steer kicked out of a show for wrong doing.He is one of the most respected Angus breeders and judges in the country. While that don't make him exempt from wrong doing,I would bet ALOT of money it was unintentional.It's a shame when someone on here or other message boards start bashing and speculating without getting their facts straight.Even if I personally don't like someone or,if I think I know they are not above and beyond water,I'm smart enough not to use a public forum such as this to start rumors. Get all the facts,then speak what's on your mind.One of these days someone is going to be innocent of all allegations and their reputation will be beyond repair,because of a message board rumors. Where I come from in the old days,that would be cause for a good old country ass whupping.

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

Is that not why we have these forums. so we can exchange knowledge and ideas. yes everyone knows that Satree has some of the best angus in the world. I still dont see how a person is not going to know the background of something in their show string. i kind of see some people jumping to conclusions not really knowing what happened but all conclusions seem reasonable to me. i see some people jumping up to defend Satree like it didnt even happen. thats crap cause something did happen and you caint deny that shit. Great guy to bad it happened but my opinion some people have a man crush on Satree.

 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

Saying something like you just said needs to be addressed in private. If you are insinuating anything close to what it sounds like you are,you need to come see me personally and we will get to the bottom of any problem you may have. Talk is cheap who ever you are. You don't have a clue to whether Satree is guilty or not. Hell, crosses have been sold as Angus for years,and if someone provides papers for the calf,what are you going to say? Oh my I can't buy him unless you DNA him? Sounds to me you must have a lot of experience with underhanded stuff.

 

[Show Dad]

One thing that is being overshadowed in this discussion, is the fact that if you think you are going to win in AZ you better have all your ducks in a row. This is one show that apparently means business. And I applaud them for it. (clapping)

 

[chambero]

All I'm saying is I've seen nothing official or heard any credible "rumors" outside of here that it was "entry" related.  Could have been a positive drug test or a bunch of other things.  From this particilar family, I bet it was something accidental.  I may be dead wrong.  But this was a calf they entered as an Angus.  They werent rolling the dice to win it all.  I'll find out for sure at a convenient and polite time.

 

[Show Heifer]

I do not know ANY of the parties involved. Nor do I know many of the people on here. Nor do I care if I do.

But one observation from the upper deck : There are a lot of "mistakes" happening at major shows. Especially from people who "have been showing cattle for years".  You would think they would know how to avoid those "mistakes".

Again, don't know anyone involved. Just an observation about the defense of "mistakes" in general.

 

[SouthWest]

I used to be a Satree fan.  I was always eager to see if they  brought any new stock to show.  I agree,they  has some of the best cattle.  I agree, he is one hell of a good judge.  I agree, they have a damn good eye for cattle.  I don't agree, like, or will ever defend is a cheat.  Yes, it could have been a mistake.  Really?  Were you there to see the look on their face?  Were you there to how everything transpired?  I was.  I was feet away.  Thats when I lost respect.  Like if someone had told me the Micheal Jordan was a steriod freak in his prime.  Why?

Arizona Nat. officials where notified of the possibity of a terminal mkt steer being brought to their event.  When the Satree's steer approach the scale, Az Nat officails notified the Satree of the announcement.  They were ask if they wanted to scratch the animal.  If they were to cross the scale before the ring, then it would be an officail entry.  Just the look on each family member was of guilt.  But I have to give it to them, they decided to cross the scales.  The Satree's steer went on to win its class and eventually the show. The champ and reserve steers were drug tested and dna pulled.  And so were many others at random.   I do not dispute the champ steer winning.  I could not make up my mind which steer was better, the Satree's or Schoor's.  It was up to what style you liked.  They were both very good steers.  All the talk around the show later was how could this happen two years in a row.  Would Az Nat. have a back bone to do something about it?  The Satree's are a big supporter, draw, entry, etc. to the show.  Why would someone do what was done a year before and from the same place?  This would be crazy.  You know both shows are working together since the first one finished so this would definitely would not happen again.  It would be showman's suicide.

At  the sale, the behind the scenes talk resurfaced.  The atmoshere felt tainted.  The champ was introduced.  Before the auctioneer could begin, Satree made a suprise announcement.  Half of all the proceeds of the sale of the champ mkt steer would go into the Az Nat scholarship fund.  She proceeded to state how the show Az Nat has been great to the family.  They looked to come back many years.  She continued how thankful the family is to Az. Nat.  The more was spoken, the guiltier the whole thing sounded.  The steer sold again for not as much money as other shows do.  It is also not a big pay out.  But it is a banner lots of us do not have.  And if one does this show or any for the money, then I have some ocean front property in Arizona for you.  We do it for one reason, True Happiness.  As Pres. Theodore Roosevet said, "True Happiness is doing what you love to do with the people you love the most."  We all love cattle.

Well the steer was kept on close watch.  When harvested, the ears, nose, blood, and tissue samples were kept I understand.  This was till true dna samples came back positive.  Well it did.  Sorry.  Second set also tested positive match to the other terminal show.  As you can see both Nat. show were sharing info. and data to prove this beyond a doubt.  This is why it has taken so long.  Everyone knows what a big name the Satree's are.  The shows went above and beyond and more to make sure this was accurate.  You don't want a false positive.  This is why it has taken so long.  Its been official for about 5 weeks now.  No one was running to the message boards defaming this great family.  The show was over Dec 29 of last year with the sale being on Jan 1st.  No one was running to the boards belittleing this family.  But the truth was that it was true.  It came back positive.

This has brought anger to some of you.  I know the feeling.  I could not beleive it myself.  But I was there by the scales, by the ring, at the sale.  Like I stated earlier, it was like if someone discredited your greatest look up to athlete.  It just couldn't happen but it did.  I do beleive the family does owe an apology to both shows, its fans (like yourselves), and the participants it beat at the show.  I remember the buckaroo kid in full gear.  Cowboy hat, shirts, buckeroo boots with jeans tucked inside so proud of his steer.  He didn't win the show but he won a fan in me.  it reminded me thats what I like to see in a showperson.  Fun.  Written all over his face.  

Well I hope this sheds more light on what happened so we can all put it behind us.  And yes, I will still send my check in to the Az Nat as a member and supporter.  And it might not be a big show to some, but to some kids in the west that cant afford to travel, this is still "The Big One."  Ust remember that before winning, its about having fun.

 

[yuppiecowboy]

deleted due to post previous making my statements irrelevant

 

[loveRedcows]

One thing that is being overshadowed in this discussion, is the fact that if you think you are going to win in AZ you better have all your ducks in a row. This is one show that apparently means business. And I applaud them for it. (clapping)

Well said and to the point -- now, if only everyone would follow the rules....

 

[LinZ]

Figured you would chime in from your high wooden rocking horse Show Heifer. You need to change your handle to Righteous Indignation.  I don't think she said anything wrong. People may have a good rep and be big time but alot of times it just means they know how to get around "issues" better.

Does anyone have pertinent FACTS regarding the situation? For all anyone KNOWS it could be something simple. I find it absurd how people become a frenzied torch wielding mob, foaming at the mouth, looking for anything to jab with their pitchforks.  I don't know what happened, but I highly doubt AZ Ntnl would disaqualify someone unless they were absolutely positive and wether it's something simple or not I doubt the owners were completely unaware of it...if they know what they are doing so well they should know where their steer came from to some extent and if he was shown previously, where. I'm not foaming at the mouth nor do I want to jab someone but obviously they did something wrong, be it simple or complicated.

I dont care if its Doug Satree or Doug my neighbor. When there are FACTS and a executive finding based on those facts, it should be public knowledge and open to scrutiny and discussion among those that find it important and have nothing better to do. Why is discussion about someone doing something against the rules and getting caught mean those doing the discussing have nothing better to do? Especially from a big time breeder, people who are interested in buying calves from this breeder should be able to discuss what happened.

Again, I'm not foaming at the mouth or jabbing pitchforks...I don't know the family personally, I've shown under Satree and he did a fine job judging but that doesn't mean they don't do things they shouldn't....might mean they are absolutely crazy for putting everything they've worked for in jeopardy but people want to win sometimes and maybe that wasn't the motivation but they were disqualified and I'm sure the show wouldn't have done that just for the heck of it.


JMHO,
LinZ

 

[chambero]

Did they own the calf in August, show it themselves in Kansas City, run it through the sale, then take it on to Arizona?  Or did they supposedly acquire it from someone else after Kansas City?  If one of those is the correct story, then I stand corrected. 

It still doesn't make sense as to motive.  They had an "overdone" steer at Fort Worth that a month earlier would have been fresher and probably have been quite capable of winning AZ.

 

[OLD WORLD SHORTIE]

Sounds like a case of a lost calf. Happens all time these days, people lose their calves in the pasture then find ita couple month later when it is time to show again. Probly what happened, just like these frame score tens that i saw a Louisville last year. Its getting real tough these days, frigen 900 lb 6 month olds with 4.5lbs daily gain.  Guess i got off track but i just wanted to rant. I hope i wasn't to personal for anybody.

 

[showcattlegal]

I don't know the family. But I whatever happened, happened. They cheated and got cought. I wish more shows where brave enough to do what AZ Nationals have done. (clapping)

 

[shortdawg]

They pull DNA on our steers here in GA during the fall and pull again at the State Show in Feb. To keep folks from switching calves.

 

[chambero]

Calves that make the sale at our majors are branded before they ever exit the show ring.  Why doesnt KC or everywhere else do it?  Makes this stuff an impossibility.

Plus we tag in in late June where they nose print and pull hair foe DNA also.

 

[Show Heifer]

yo yuppie, I am sitting on my high rocking horse waiting on your apology..... and waiting.

I didn't say anything wrong either. I just said, it is amazing how many "mistakes" are made, especially when they are "mistakes that are caught."  I do not have "righteous indignitation". It is simply my opinion that a lot of people that "know better" seem to make a lot of "mistakes".  Does this latest episode prove me right or wrong?