Dream On deceased

[jbh]

Brad, I'm on the fence with cloning.  I agree that no genetic improvement is made if we keep cloning.  But, then I think, maybe this bull hasn't been mated to the right cow yet.  He died before he could produce a son better than himself.  The generation interval is too darn long with cattle!!  Then again, just look at all the semen people seem to have in their tanks after a bull dies.  I guess we could just use that to "produce" a son better than himself.

I guess I need to CLARIFY my statement a little.......I'm not ONLY talking about CLONED BULLS......there's been show steer and heifer clones made also and I'm YET to see one as good as the ORIGINAL......some not even CLOSE!  And EVEN if they are as good as the first one that won.....what guarantees you that a better hasn't been raised since then.

I've had more phone calls lately about how the oldest cloned females are working out???........I know there's been some fertility problems in them also, it's just hard to figure out whether they would have had the same problems even if they WERE NOT CLONES.

I guess if you've got the money and time to do it........that's your OWN BUSINESS.....but now that it's become almost "COMMON" in the beef industry......I'm just wondering how effective it ACTUALLY is?????

 

[rtmcc]

Brad, I'm on the fence with cloning.  I agree that no genetic improvement is made if we keep cloning.  But, then I think, maybe this bull hasn't been mated to the right cow yet.  He died before he could produce a son better than himself.  The generation interval is too darn long with cattle!!  Then again, just look at all the semen people seem to have in their tanks after a bull dies.  I guess we could just use that to "produce" a son better than himself.

Dream On was a great one and definently sure fire calving ease.  As to not being mated to the right cow yet, I think he has been bred to 90% of the Simmental cows in the bread  ....  many if them twice.  He has many great sons out there that are finding their knitch and proving out either good or bad or inconsistent.

On cloning, I think with the many millions of cattle we have, the next genetically superior one should be able to be found, hopefully an outcross.  Problem is too many people now days are just cattle reproducers and not true cattle breeders.  I think AI'ing and Et'ing are essential tools in the progress of cattle genetics.  But sometimes it looks like with all the flushing and cloning the same bulls that people use the theory of "if we throw enough crap against the wall, something is bound to stick."  May work for the big budget outfits.  Some of us have to study it and try to make every mating profitable.

I'll get off my soap box and go check the calving barn and check in later.
Ron
<cowboy>

 

[Show Heifer]

Hey JBH, you and I agree 100% on the cloning issue. I have ALWAYS said that producers aren't doing their job if they are cloning (you should improve every generation).I have warned about how they don't breed true and have health problems.  I have stated that several times on here and it has been met with arguements and "you don't know anything..." comments.  I guess coming from you it carriers more expertise!!! Thanks for confirming my thoughts!

By the way, GREAT JOB on the video for your neighbors. I will be pulling for them.

 

[jbw]

Dream On- I still think that he did as much for the breed as any bull lately, IMO.  He left many great sons and the females seem to  be doing well.

On cloning- Say a cloned market hfr. or steer won a terminal show, would that calf be killed and put into the consumers market?  Did I miss this getting legalized? Just asking. 

 

[jbh]

Dream On- I still think that he did as much for the breed as any bull lately, IMO.  He left many great sons and the females seem to  be doing well.

On cloning- Say a cloned market hfr. or steer won a terminal show, would that calf be killed and put into the consumers market?  Did I miss this getting legalized? Just asking.   

I'm pretty sure the Fed. Gove came out with a ruling a couple years or so, ago, that allowed cloned animals to be slaughtered.....not sure of the specifics though. 

I think this issue is addressed in the next episode of the "Wayne County Fair"!

 

[jbw]

Is the Wayne County Fair video coming in the spring of 2011?

 

[JWW]

didn't relize my joking little comment would erupt like that.... lol

- cloned animals are allowed in the food chain.

- we might actually find that next great Dream On son will emerge now, since the price of semen is shot up (and probably go up another $50 by March), he will only be bred to the best cows for the best matings, case and point- some of the best Meyer 734 sons/daughters came from the flushing of superior donor females.

- i bred a majority of my heifers last year to IDT, the calves came easy and hope they grow!

JWW

 

[herefordfootball]

I dont really believe in cloning and will never used a cloned bull. If you cant find a son or full brother or another alternative, then this industry is seriously going down hill imo...

 

[redsimms]

Not that it really matters i suppose... but does anyone know what happened to him??

 

[Bone2011]

I just heard today he got hurt and they had to put him down.

 

[kanshow]

We bred all our heifers to IDT and to date, they are a uniform bunch of little boogers.  Like a previous poster, I hope they grow.  Thankfully we have mostly heifers from him because I have seen some fantastic females sired by IDT. 

Another DO son to watch might be Built Right. 

 

[coachmac]

"Another DO son to watch might be Built Right."

We are looking forward to seeing more calves out of him as well! 

 

[forcheyhawk]

I plan to use CLO/LTS Entourage this year.  I'm pretty excited about it to be honest.  I've seen a few of his females down at Lone Tree Simmentals and they look good.

 

[DakotaCow]

I think its silly that people are so tore up that he died he was an M if im not mistaken and like was mentioned he was probably bred to most anything with simmy influence or anything that says moo for that matter. I have always said "a bull that does not produce a son that replaces him is not really that good of a bull". NO im not saying that Dream On is not a good bull, let me clarify that right away, but I am saying that dream on has had some really good years and many of his sons are in reputable studs and his daughters have even had an impact on the simmy breed.

 

[kanshow]

He was an "L"  - 2001 bull.    I think he was the most influential living bull in the breed over the past decade.    There were still places to use him.  So yes, it is a big deal that he is gone.   

 

[DakotaCow]

Never did I say it was not a big deal that he is gone and I wont argue the impact he has had im just saying he is gone now so all we can do is look to the future and find a replacement. BTW as good as he was /is(for those lucky enough to still have semen!) he has many sons out there that will do his name justice.