DRM Phineas Shorthorn bull calf

[Mitch]

Took a picture of our Ace of Diamonds bull calf yesterday. So Just thought i would post pictures of him as a calf, then at weaning and then at 8 months.  It shows is progress.  We are hoping he keep coming.
Still aren't sure if we will sell all of him or keep him. What do you think?

Mitch

 

[Okotoks]

He looks good at every stage. (clapping) He has a very interesting pedigree, those Ruby cows really are great producers!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Hows Wernickes bull doing? This calf looks real good-hows he move?-Looks like he has a butt on him? The reason I ask is: we are gonna have some Mickey ETS down the road-and have a Free For All that I really thought would work with Ace.The other owner wants something a little more fluid.based on the calves he had seen:and we may come back with Mickey-Shes been on here-very thick-on the cusp of being too straight on her rear wheels. .-The only thing: would be the sire of this bulls dam-El Bonito. (I think) That cow had to come from a great female :El Bonito just really wasnt my style.However your calfs dam has produced a couple of OUTSTANDING individuals.And Id use him,as long as the BWS arent out there. Does she go back to the Spotty Queen descendents you had? O0.

 

[Mitch]

Mark check out his pedigrees, his registration number is #4174230 , he has an different pedigree.  Trump is  5-6 generations back.  His grandmother is a whale of a cow I bought from Dale Studer for my grandson.
The mother of Phineas has never had a bad calf.  She had a heifer calf out of El Bonito that did alot winning in Kansas. Her 2009 heifer by Mickey won her class in both the Junior and open show at the Louisville in 2010.
We lost her 2010 calf.

 

[itk]

He is a really nice looking calf. There are so many options on keeping an interest in him I wouldn't worry about possession. I would sell full possession, half semen rights and keep the rights for a cell line. That way if you sell enough semen with your retained interest you can just use the cell line and make another one just like him. ;D

Mark, for the first time I'm going to have to disagree with you. I really like the bulls pedigree. It shows what a sad state the breed is in that this is almost a total outcross. I'm sure it is because we owned Tartan Colleen that I don't mind El Bonito, since she is his paternal grand dam. She would be way to big by today's standards but she was powerful and was always in good shape for a cow as big as she was. It might give the calves alittle more grow then some like. But IMO some of today's popular lines need a shot of growth put back in them. I think we still have a few eggs out of her and Gold Link. Oh, how I love to walk down memory lane to simpler times when Cags and Doc ran the breed and everyone else just fell into place. Happy Days!

 

[Shorthorns4us]

Itk:

I need some clarification on the statement-- "when Cag and Doc ran the breed and everyone else just fell into place"?

Thanks
EF

 

[Okotoks]

                                                               *x3961218 PS PHA-F TH-F KA'BA LEGEND 102
                                      *4001704 SYPS PHA-F TH-F JM VORTEC ET
                                                             *AR20470 PS WAUKARU WIMPLE 165
                *x4090487 WERNACRES ACE HIGH 620
                                                             *x3961249 PHA-F TH-F GFS CREOLE 9590 ET
                                      x4055347 HOMEDALE JULIE C
                                                               *x4024356 DSF JULIE 4K
sire *x4115579 PHA-F TH-F HI VIEW'S ACE OF DIAMONDS
                                                                *x3928793 CF ULTIMATE DRIVE X
                                         *x4002833 PHA-F TH-F CF ROYAL X ET
                                                               *x3848031 CF CARMELE RB 950X
                  *x4096178 HI-VIEW 2ND ZELDA
                                                               *3973176 PHA-C TH-F 4D DOUBLE TROUBLE
                                           *3997687 HI-VIEW TROUBLE ZELDA
                                                               *3963377 HI-VIEW CHOICE ZELDA
DRM PHINEAS 104 *x4174230    
                                                              * x3918045 GCF ROBINS IMPROVER
                                              *x3964370 AR SU LU MIKASA
                                                                 *x3865250 CHS MANDY
              *x4023558 K-KIM HIGH FIDELITY 55K
                                                                 x3920613 SS LANE FROST 311
                                             x3966885 SR FAIR LADY
                                                                x3845517 REB BONNIE
dam  x4088560 TH-F MMM TRIXIE'S RUBY 431
                                                             *x4015225 WHR 3-D RODEO 7R53
                                       *x4029489 TH-C WHR ROOSTER FR15
                                                           *x4019796 WHR SWEET MARGIE 7R58
          *x4055299 TH-F DSF SILVER RUBY
                                                            xC457263 GAFA MOCHICAN
                                      x4033868 EIONMOR MOCHICAN RUBY 45E
                                                             C653911 EIONMOR OMEN RUBY 17Y

 

[itk]

Itk:

I need some clarification on the statement-- "when Cag and Doc ran the breed and everyone else just fell into place"?

Thanks
EF

About 8-10 years ago Don was winning something at every major, he had 2 sales a year that were awesome and managed every sale. Not a bad thing as we spent a ton of cash at his place, infact we bought Tartan Colleen from him. There was just a whole different elite in the breed then. Times change, I would guess that only a few of the sales I went to ten years ago are still going. Just interesting to see the breed change.

 

[RyanChandler]

Itk:

I need some clarification on the statement-- "when Cag and Doc ran the breed and everyone else just fell into place"?

Thanks
EF

About 8-10 years ago Don was winning something at every major, he had 2 sales a year that were awesome and managed every sale. Not a bad thing as we spent a ton of cash at his place, infact we bought Tartan Colleen from him. There was just a whole different elite in the breed then. Times change, I would guess that only a few of the sales I went to ten years ago are still going. Just interesting to see the breed change.

And you feel that was a good thing...?

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I thought he was out of another female altoghether-As far as him being an outcross-I think with Vortec,2 or more shots of Improver 57-Rodeo at least 3 times-the 3d cow (we had a full sib to one of the bulls in his pedigree) Warrior,and the great Double Trouble Zelda cow,and the Canadian side,(I think the cow is sired by 85s sire-correct me okotoks if not)which you can see just from the picture.-HES HARDLY an outcross-as much as a THROWBACK-to cattle a few years ago-when Cagwin had the Lemmings jumping off the cliff at will.Hes ideal on: Sonny-or lined Trumpx Rose deals 1:-by pedigree:-and2: because his dam has already worked with BOTH LINEAGES.In his background are some of the BEST Rodeo-Vortec-shot of clubby cattle in the breed-now or then. I LIKE HIM BETTER,now that Ive seen his pedigree.Again-the only thing that would concern me is the BW-deal. If I use one bred like him-It needs to be a proven low BW pedigree-female-Which Ive really worked at producing.Now in response to the growth issue-we had some really big cows at Deertrail-several a ton or better,and living in alot harsher conditions  than anything at Wankels or Cagwins.In fact Deertrail Vebop-a junior Walker daughter-recently went 1900 pounds in her prime,as did Carla (another JW daughter) ask Dave McFarland. The biggest bulls of the 90s:-Awesome-T-bone-Mad Max-Sagebrush,and the unknowns that went North,all came from Deertrail. I started changing direction in 1995-because the cattle werent thick enough for me-or if they were-they were pretty course made,and I ended up somewhere in the middle of the road-with 1350-1500 pound 4.5-5+- frame females.In 1994-95 I raised a Dextro Bull which shoulda brought $4000-and disappeared to some Kansas doofusses who let him die of footrot,and Lawrence raised  Deertrail Buckshot-who came out of the smoothest,biggest  Maine- Dual cow on the place -YES COVINO 2 and others were really in the background-dont tell JIT,or Shadybrooke.When I say one isnt my style-its not necessarily the size issue-its how they are made,in my opinion.Harold Hoskins had some huge thick cattle-We  knew they had fullblood Maine-Deertrail Breeding-a lied about Charolais bull  and Simmintal-you just didnt know exactly what they really were.Back to the beginning-Bonito didnt seem to make a dfferance on Mitches cow-all hers have beengood ones.  O0

 

[itk]

Itk:

I need some clarification on the statement-- "when Cag and Doc ran the breed and everyone else just fell into place"?

Thanks
EF

About 8-10 years ago Don was winning something at every major, he had 2 sales a year that were awesome and managed every sale. Not a bad thing as we spent a ton of cash at his place, infact we bought Tartan Colleen from him. There was just a whole different elite in the breed then. Times change, I would guess that only a few of the sales I went to ten years ago are still going. Just interesting to see the breed change.

And you feel that was a good thing...?

Not good or bad it just was. If Cags wasn't managing it and Brooks wasn't calling it you weren't really having a sale. Your top end wasn't all that great unless Caney Valley or Milestone bought it. I will say that I think there was more diverse gentics offered for sale then. But et and other technology has made multiplying top genetics easier. Really how many times can you put Trump X Rose in a pedigree. In ten more years there will be a whole new set of high rollers and we will sit around discussing how things were different when breeders X,Y and Z ran things.

Mark, a whole paragraph about DT and Hoskins and no love for Studly. He was a National Champ and walked our pastures for 5 years. Now not even a name drop for a old friend. I would still put a Studly daughter up against anything. I remember Vebop and Carla both were tremendous females. Somehow I ended up with a bunch of Lawrence's calf pictures from before he passed. I haven't dug them out for a few years and not sure I even know where they are but I loved their cattle and always enjoyed looking at those pictures.

 

[Doc]

Or like in the good ole days when a nobody or small breeder could go to L'ville with a nice hfr & truly have a shot at winning it. I remember the year Mary Kaye won it for Waymar. It seems like nowadays if it doesn't say SULL, CYT or Cates it won't be in the hunt. I mean yes my hat is off to them for raising good cattle , but it also seems to discourage some people from spending the money to go knowing they don't have a shot.

Mitch, didn't mean to stray from the original post. I do really like the looks of your bull.

 

[stumpy]

Tom, that is a good lookin bull. I hate to disagree but little guys can compete. I have realized it and you just need to get up earlier and stay up later. Anybody can win, it's not easy but possible. Mitch stands a chance with this guy for sure. Competition is about hours spent, doing your reaserch and learning. Everybody can be in the hunt if they want it.

 

[aandtcattle]

Tom, that is a good lookin bull. I hate to disagree but little guys can compete. I have realized it and you just need to get up earlier and stay up later. Anybody can win, it's not easy but possible. Mitch stands a chance with this guy for sure. Competition is about hours spent, doing your reaserch and learning. Everybody can be in the hunt if they want it.

I wish everybody had your attitude stumpy.  Let me know when you want those embryos, I will get them shipped to you.  pm me

 

[simmyman67]

I love him!

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Studly is another story-a national champion,and the beginning of the moderation of the Deertrail herd, I have pictures of his real mother-who was the heaviest cow Ive seen (approx 2500 pounds).Exclusives Carrie,who was really sired by Vistas Sentra (flash) a fullblood Maine. He started out as a thick big bull-because Slick Hoskins also had a tendancy to get birthdates confused. Then he leveled off. He was a true low BW bull,and sired some very good females.He was made alot different than the big bulls,other than Echodale  Top Draft-who was a changer ahead of his time,and who clearly went back to some Maine. The 4th  high seller of the breed in 1999 was a Cumberland hiefer.A StudlyxTopDraftx the Rodeo Gregg Cumberland I started with in 1991. I kept her back-and we lost last year. Her last calf would have been the red  HORNED LOW BW Free For All that sold at the KS winter expo(where Shorts hardly get a bid) for $3000 I believe. Im gonna use him. O0

 

[sue]

Took a picture of our Ace of Diamonds bull calf yesterday. So Just thought i would post pictures of him as a calf, then at weaning and then at 8 months.  It shows is progress.  We are hoping he keep coming.
Still aren't sure if we will sell all of him or keep him. What do you think?

Mitch

I like the calf - the name is a little boring   . It would be fun to make it out  to the sale in oct.  This calf sells out there?

 

[Mitch]

Sue,  The bull actually belongs to my 8 yr. old grandson.  He picked out the name from the cartoon.  He named his mother"Bingo"  that is a story in it self.  Hope you can make it to the sale.  I am selling cattle with Dale Studers  on his sale Oct 8,  I will be selling 2 pregency sired by DF Waco and out of Shadybrook Quinana 90P.  That is the cow Dave Luett bought in there 2008 sale.

Hope to see you this fall

 

[rkmn]

I'm not a Shorthorn guy, but I really like your bull.