DUCK..... this post could get nasty

[CAB]

25 straws @100/unit = a bull with no feed bill, though you have to pay for AI, don't have to make/fix fence for a bull.

Super good logic Knabe, but I like this equation much better. 25 straws @ $25/30 dollars on a great proven bull. To me this almost has to be one of the you scratch my back then I'll scratch your's. There's just no good reason to spend $100/unit on this bull. I wasn't in Denver this year, but honestly there's more chat about Smilin Bob going on now than there is chat about any of the 2011 class IMO.

 

[Mueller Show Cattle]

I will never pay $100 a straw when his proven brother (Walks Alone) is $30 and some of the best calfs I have had out of my heard was Walks Alone and others around this part of the country. He is starting to come on strong around here for being a 3 year old bull. He might be as good as Walks Alone, we will see in a year.  I will AI three cows cheaper than who ever uses Believe In Me. Give it a couple of months and I bet it comes down to $30 also, even at that, he is unproven and I will use more Walks Alone and maybe 1 of Believe in Me cause I have seen Walks Alone calves on the ground. Way too many REALLY nice bulls out there that are PROVEN way under $100 a straw to pay that much for an unproven bull, just my opinion.

 

[MCC]

rent a bull for $100 to sample on your herd rather than buying a bull and having him breed 25 cows and not have any diversity.

25 straws @100/unit = a bull with no feed bill, though you have to pay for AI, don't have to make/fix fence for a bull.

never really understood how anyone can complain about the price.

knabe I realize from your posts you are head and shoulders above me in the smarts department. But in your post you are buying enough semen to breed all of your cow's ONCE. The best conception rate I have ever had first time thru is 95% and that was dry lotting the cows and living with them heat detecting and breeding them when I thought they needed bred even if I bred one at 2am and another at 3:25am. So if we say we get 90% first time through that's 2 plus cows we have coming up empty. That's 2 less calves we have to sell and at today's market that could be around $1200 to $1500. So if I use a proven bull or a full brother like Walks Alone that has calves on the ground that look like they will work I can save $1875. I can then take that money and buy a cleanup bull to make sure the cows I didn't get stuck get bred. If we are lucky and have 100% calf crop that makes me another $1200 to $1500 and with the semen money I saved and have a cleanup bull to add to my assets. I can build a little fence and feed a bull for that kind of money.

 

[Mueller Show Cattle]

I'm sorry, through Topsires you can still get Walks Alone for $25 a unit. 25 units X $100 a unit = $2,500 and unproven.  25 units X $25 = $625 a quarter of that price and proven. What does this mean, means it's a no brainer to me.  I have 2 cows not take, I'm out $50, you have 2 cows not take, your out $200.

 

[vet tech]

All ill say is that I like walsk alone...and will use him

 

[kfacres]

rent a bull for $100 to sample on your herd rather than buying a bull and having him breed 25 cows and not have any diversity.

25 straws @100/unit = a bull with no feed bill, though you have to pay for AI, don't have to make/fix fence for a bull.

never really understood how anyone can complain about the price.

knabe I realize from your posts you are head and shoulders above me in the smarts department. But in your post you are buying enough semen to breed all of your cow's ONCE. The best conception rate I have ever had first time thru is 95% and that was dry lotting the cows and living with them heat detecting and breeding them when I thought they needed bred even if I bred one at 2am and another at 3:25am. So if we say we get 90% first time through that's 2 plus cows we have coming up empty. That's 2 less calves we have to sell and at today's market that could be around $1200 to $1500. So if I use a proven bull or a full brother like Walks Alone that has calves on the ground that look like they will work I can save $1875. I can then take that money and buy a cleanup bull to make sure the cows I didn't get stuck get bred. If we are lucky and have 100% calf crop that makes me another $1200 to $1500 and with the semen money I saved and have a cleanup bull to add to my assets. I can build a little fence and feed a bull for that kind of money.

you can come and breed my cows any day of the week.. and if you stick 95% of them...  I'll give you my cow herd. 

I bet you'd find a hard bargin to be able to pay the feed bill on a bull for 1500...  $7 corn, I say... you say grass... I Say $10,000 an acre ground-- plus fertilzer???  Don't think those figures are as economical as filling a semen tank. 

 

[MCC]

Darn truth, guess I better sell my cow herd. If it costs me over $1500 a head a year to feed one and I'm selling my calves for $600 a head my banker is losing money. No wonder I didn't get a Christmas card.

 

[CAB]

I did hear this evening that these auctions are going to be the only way to get semen on BIM this year. Has anyone else heard this?? If that's true, it looks similar to the Upgrade bull and to say the least there are some very upset PPL about how semen promotions have evolved on Upgrade!!!

 

[knabe]

full sibs don't produce the same. it's just a risk.  one can say buy 5 units and breed the rest to the proven full sib for another scenario. 

 

[xxcc]

sometimes the same creature himself doesn't produce the same result on every turn of the card!

 

[SEA]

rent a bull for $100 to sample on your herd rather than buying a bull and having him breed 25 cows and not have any diversity.

25 straws @100/unit = a bull with no feed bill, though you have to pay for AI, don't have to make/fix fence for a bull.

never really understood how anyone can complain about the price.

knabe I realize from your posts you are head and shoulders above me in the smarts department. But in your post you are buying enough semen to breed all of your cow's ONCE. The best conception rate I have ever had first time thru is 95% and that was dry lotting the cows and living with them heat detecting and breeding them when I thought they needed bred even if I bred one at 2am and another at 3:25am. So if we say we get 90% first time through that's 2 plus cows we have coming up empty. That's 2 less calves we have to sell and at today's market that could be around $1200 to $1500. So if I use a proven bull or a full brother like Walks Alone that has calves on the ground that look like they will work I can save $1875. I can then take that money and buy a cleanup bull to make sure the cows I didn't get stuck get bred. If we are lucky and have 100% calf crop that makes me another $1200 to $1500 and with the semen money I saved and have a cleanup bull to add to my assets. I can build a little fence and feed a bull for that kind of money.

you can come and breed my cows any day of the week.. and if you stick 95% of them...  I'll give you my cow herd. 

I bet you'd find a hard bargin to be able to pay the feed bill on a bull for 1500...  $7 corn, I say... you say grass... I Say $10,000 an acre ground-- plus fertilzer???  Don't think those figures are as economical as filling a semen tank. 

Sorry Knable, I believe comparing A.I.'ing, to breed a "cow herd", to using a bull, to breed a "cow herd",  is like comparing Apples to Oranges.  I have have read numerous papers and/or articles on the subject,  They are not the same thing.  While both methods may achieve the same results, getting cows bred, they serve two different scenarios,  and require two different levels of management as well as two different amounts of labor/time investment required and handling facilities required.

 

[ruhtram]

rent a bull for $100 to sample on your herd rather than buying a bull and having him breed 25 cows and not have any diversity.

25 straws @100/unit = a bull with no feed bill, though you have to pay for AI, don't have to make/fix fence for a bull.

never really understood how anyone can complain about the price.

Good point Knabe!

 

[feeder duck]

Well they had to get it fast while he is "hot". I collected bull for a living for 5 years and sold semen as well. There is more semen collected on these young bulls because everyone said "he was the best bull in Denver"    WHATEVER!!! PROVEN SELLS enough said. $100 bucks if someone pays that they deserve whatever they get.


  I am not bashing the bull by the way, more like bashing anyone that would pay $100 on ANY UNPROVEN BULL.

Jeff

 

[MCC]

http://www.cattlevisions.com/Composite/BelieveInMe.php

 

[Bradenh]

<deadhorse> <deadhorse> <deadhorse> <deadhorse> <deadhorse> <deadhorse> that says 30 dollars a straw.