electric prod

[GoWyo]

Cows understandably do not like to go into the chute because the last time the went in the chute they received an arm in their rectum, shots, got branded, etc. (have to admit previous aversive experiences with me when they are in the chute definitely bothers the cow).  We don't have time (impatience) to treat them to the finer things in life while in the squeeze chute to train them to look forward to a reward.  The prod is that necessary evil that helps the occasional bovine overcome their fear of palpation, needles and fire and move forward in an orderly fashion without yelling, poking, twisting, whacking or losing temper.  Once they have been artfully prodded (not lit up until they beller) they seldom need a second zap the next time they go through the chute.

 

[chambero]

I need a hotshot to get my kids to go to the doctor to get vaccinated - and they speak English.  I dont feed cows in the chute, so they are pretty sure there's not a thing in there they need.  Hence the occasional need to remind one there's something worse behind them than in front. 

A set of batteries tends to last us a very long time though.

 

[shortyisqueen]

I have never used a hot shot and hopefully will never need to. Its always my goal when working cattle to do so in complete silence at a walk and using my sorting stick as an extension of my hand (ie, prodding the cattle with no more force than I could naturally...which is not much really, since I'm a 5'4" woman). It doesn't always work like this, but for the most part, keeping things uneventful is the most efficient way of working cattle. If your cattle NEED to be worked with a hot shot, you may consider: A) Are you corrals not set-up in a way that makes most efficient use of a herding animal's instincts? or B) Have you not selected for disposition (which is proven to correlate with weight gain and therefore is a profitable trait anyways) and the cattle you are working are the ones you shouldn't have kept?

 

[DL]

shortyisqueen - my, what a rational approach - do you find it interesting that most proponents of using a hot shot are men, and most who think there is a better way are women? Might behoove the men to refresh themselves on cattle movement in the chute from Temple Grandins web page - no matter what is said, using a hot shot for working cattle is basically an admission of poor handling, inadequate facilities, genetic selection of poor temperament, human impatience, improper technique or pain management when the animal was previously in the chute (aversive experience), or lack of understanding of why cattle balk

 

[LN]

shortyisqueen - my, what a rational approach - do you find it interesting that most proponents of using a hot shot are men, and most who think there is a better way are women? Might behoove the men to refresh themselves on cattle movement in the chute from Temple Grandins web page - no matter what is said, using a hot shot for working cattle is basically an admission of poor handling, inadequate facilities, genetic selection of poor temperament, human impatience, improper technique or pain management when the animal was previously in the chute (aversive experience), or lack of understanding of why cattle balk

It may not apply to all men, but I'll testify to the women finding a better way. When I came back from college to work on my family's ranch, I was horrified by how my uncle and two male employees treated the cattle when loading them in a trailer. They hot shot was the only tool they were using and were hot shotting the crap out of the poor cows.  It was so disturbing to me and after that day I put my foot down and said hot shots are banned, and I didn't ever want to see them be used like that again. I've read a lot of Grandin's articles and they're another female cattle behaviorist, I forget what her name is, but I read her articles too and it's amazing how those techniques work so much better.

 

[GoWyo]

Ladies -- I don't think any of us fellas are advocating the hot shot as the first tool of choice.  We can all do better on cattle working skills.  But, the only way you will get my hot shot is to pry it from my cold dead fingers. <rock>  When hot shots are outlawed, only outlaws will have hot shots. ;D

 

[DL]

Ladies -- I don't think any of us fellas are advocating the hot shot as the first tool of choice.  We can all do better on cattle working skills.  But, the only way you will get my hot shot is to pry it from my cold dead fingers. <rock>  When hot shots are outlawed, only outlaws will have hot shots. ;D

I thought it was arm bears ;D

 

[CM Cattle]

I only use a hot shot as a last resort. The only time it has ever really came in handy was when we are loading cattle.

 

[GoWyo]

Ladies -- I don't think any of us fellas are advocating the hot shot as the first tool of choice.  We can all do better on cattle working skills.  But, the only way you will get my hot shot is to pry it from my cold dead fingers. <rock>  When hot shots are outlawed, only outlaws will have hot shots. ;D

I thought it was arm bears ;D

Bears come pretty well armed with teeth and claws.  However, Article 10 of the Code of the West says, "It being necessary to occasionally move recalcitrant and ill-tempered livestock through substandard working facilities and to otherwise reduce aggravation and abuse, the right of cattlemen to keep and bear hot shots shall not be infringed." (thumbsup)

 

[shortyisqueen]

It may not apply to all men, but I'll testify to the women finding a better way. When I came back from college to work on my family's ranch, I was horrified by how my uncle and two male employees treated the cattle when loading them in a trailer. They hot shot was the only tool they were using and were hot shotting the crap out of the poor cows.  It was so disturbing to me and after that day I put my foot down and said hot shots are banned, and I didn't ever want to see them be used like that again. I've read a lot of Grandin's articles and they're another female cattle behaviorist, I forget what her name is, but I read her articles too and it's amazing how those techniques work so much better.

Actually, I think it IS quite possible that men and women work cattle in a different manner. Like Temple Grandin's autism, perhaps the biological differences between the sexes that influence learning and behavior means that we work with and react to cattle completely differently. I'd like to watch a team of women and then a team of men sort cattle and observe what they did. I bet it would be interesting...

 

[6M Ranch]

I've always resisted using an electric prod when working cattle in the chute. Now the vet is agreeing with my partner and saying it's better than twisting tails and poking. I have a calm herd and want to keep it that way. Your thoughts??

Absolutely not

There are ways to move cattle without resorting to a hot shot and there are ways to move cattle without twisting tails - go to Temple Grandins web page - if you use the point of balance you can move most cows thru a chute without even touching them

Sounds like your vet and your partner are in too big a hurry - maybe you can trade them both in for more progressive models

I disagree.  There are times when they absolutely won't go in the chute.  A quick shock is better than fighting with them for a while.  I'm not strong enough to overpower a 1200 pound cow to push them in the chute. 

 

[knabe]

Actually, I think it IS quite possible that men and women work cattle in a different manner. Like Temple Grandin's autism, perhaps the biological differences between the sexes that influence learning and behavior means that we work with and react to cattle completely differently. I'd like to watch a team of women and then a team of men sort cattle and observe what they did. I bet it would be interesting...

one could make a study about this.  you would want to protect against finding the best women workers versus the worst male workers and vice versa. 

the worst of each are bad in different ways. 

idealism can get in the way.

then, along comes someone else that says it's cruel to treat cattle like pets and we should treat them with as little human contact as possible, perhaps even making them scared of us to preserve natural defense mechanisms.

this notion that there will always be a best way doesn't mean one can't jump the shark, and it doesn't mean to treat them as cruel as possible.