ET Recips

[klintdog]

I'm looking at adding a small recip herd this year. We'll be flushing a few cows and to me it makes more sense to buy some good recips while the market is down and then recapture my investment down the road. When looking for a good recip cow, what would you recommend?
Would you buy them bred, calve them out, and then implant in the spring?
What particular breed would you look for?
What age of cow seems to work best?
What would you budget for implanting cost per cow or per egg? 

 

[Show Heifer]

I sent you a PM!!
SH

 

[Bawndoh]

I have the same questions as klintdog.  Could you PM me too?  Or post it.

 

[kanshow]

My experience in recip cows..   

Age:  The ideal age is somewhere between 4 (3rd calf) & about 8 years old.    You can go younger or older but this is when they are at their prime reproductively & in milk production.

Disposition:   You've got to be able to work with them, they've got to make several trips up the chute.  Plus - they provide most of the environmental factors that affect the calf's dispositon.

Reproductive history:   Start with a cow that is reproductively sound.  She has been breeding back on time & settles the first time.   If you buy a bred, you'll want her to calve so that you aren't trying to push her breeding date back too far as far as getting your ET calf. 

Breed/Conformation:   Nothing milks like a Simmi cross cow - well other than a dairy breed and you don't want that.    Look for a good udder so you aren't fighting big teats,etc.   

 

[P-F]

Also you will get the best conception if you put fall eggs in cows that calves in the spring and spring eggs in cows that calved in the fall.

It may not seam economical but you can get over 80% on conception rates!

 

[CPL]

Show Heifer, I'd also like the PM please! 

I've actually had more than one person who I have very much respect for when it comes to cattle say that nothing makes better recips that holstein cows. And P-F, are you saying that you should give the recip 6 months of rest before you implant her? I don't quite understand what you're saying, but if its an 80% conception rate on embryos, its worth clear up. Thanks.

 

[shortyjock89]

I would stay away from Dairy breeds when choosing recips, Holsteins milk FAR too much for a normal calf to eat..there's a good chance for milk scours and mastitis.  Plus, I'm not sure how well some dairy cows can handle calving out some of these clubby calves.  If I had to pick, I would get some good Shorthorn/Angus, Maine X, or Sim X...or a combo of those...throw in a little Angus in there too, but make sure it's some good stock whatever you get, the better the recip, the better the calf!

 

[Doc]

I like hfrs nursing 1st calf IF you are feeding them. I don't like holding them open to long. Temprament is a major, major consideration. Not only because you are having to put them thru the chute so many times but because you have a better chance of egg sticking. I personally use my reg. Shorthorns for recips, that way if they don't hold an egg & get bred by the bull I still have a reg. calf. I have a few black Trans Ova recips that you can tell they are range cows, but the Shorties calm them down some.

 

[DL]

Put your eggs in excellent cows with good fertility and the best temperament (would you put diamonds in a garbage can?) - Use the best cows you can and if you buy them do not buy them from the yards (there is a reason that they are there) and absolutely positively do not use cull dairy cows - in fact dairy cows don't work well at all even if they aren't cull cows, don't have Johne's disease and don't have mastitis - most dairy cows don't know how to mother a calf - so unless you want to spend a lot of time teaching cows what to do and often failing dairy cows as recips are a bad idea. There is a rural tale out here about a guy who spent a lot of money on eggs and thought he would be clever and use Holsteins --- it was a disaster

There is no reason why you can't use your own cows as recips - some that have good but not great calves? I would not consider putting eggs in cows that come from herds that do not test for Johne's disease and depending on where the cows are from perhaps brucellosis.

Like Doc I use my own cows for recips - temperament is a huge deal

 

[Show Heifer]

CPL and Bawndoh, I will PM you both in the tomorrow.

 

[Bawndoh]

What about sticking like 2 to 4 calves on a Holstien after they have been born?  Let me know if this is rediculous!  I dont think I would ever practice it, but I would like to know your thoughts.

 

[shortyjock89]

What about sticking like 2 to 4 calves on a Holstien after they have been born?  Let me know if this is rediculous!  I dont think I would ever practice it, but I would like to know your thoughts.

A momma cow has to do more than just milk a ton to take care of a calf.  If you try to put more than two calves on a cow, I think she would just reject one of more of them. 

 

[Bawndoh]

I know a guy who buys baby calves who dont have a mama, and he has five newborns on a Holstien at once.  He lets them nurse off the cow for a while, and then starts them on a different ration as they get older.  At 90 days or so they are weaned off the cow, and he buys new calves to put on her.  He is probably the smartest man out there.  One cow, and he probably sells fifteen calves...or more....every year.  Im not necessarily saying this is a good idea for top dollar calves, but its an idea of some sort.

 

[kanshow]

I know a guy who buys baby calves who dont have a mama, and he has five newborns on a Holstien at once.  He lets them nurse off the cow for a while, and then starts them on a different ration as they get older.  At 90 days or so they are weaned off the cow, and he buys new calves to put on her.  He is probably the smartest man out there.  One cow, and he probably sells fifteen calves...or more....every year.  Im not necessarily saying this is a good idea for top dollar calves, but its an idea of some sort.

That used to be pretty common practice for raising bottle/bucket calves around here - it's just one step over from raising them completely by hand.  Personally, I would not want to raise my good ET calf that way unless it was otherwise orphaned. 

 

[itk]

If you are wanting to put eggs in, in the spring wait until then to buy cows with calves on their side. You can go to purebred sales and find pairs with calves on their side that have calved long enough ago to work in your ET program. Alot of commercial oriented breeders have "out to grass" sales where you can pick up pairs for a reasonable price. The best receipt cows we ever had were some shorthorn X angus cross cows from Good Family Shorthorns. We bought the pairs for a $1,250 average and put eggs in 1 month later. We were able to sell a few of the calves for show prospects and the rest went to the salebarn, but brought enough to pay off half of the purchase price. Plus coming from a reputable breeder we knew they had decent bloodlines and had been in a consistant health program.

 

[DL]

I know a guy who buys baby calves who dont have a mama, and he has five newborns on a Holstien at once.  He lets them nurse off the cow for a while, and then starts them on a different ration as they get older.  At 90 days or so they are weaned off the cow, and he buys new calves to put on her.  He is probably the smartest man out there.  One cow, and he probably sells fifteen calves...or more....every year.  Im not necessarily saying this is a good idea for top dollar calves, but its an idea of some sort.

those are rare cows indeed - I know of a Dutch Belt who would nurse 2 calves and 4 goats - but your usual dairy cow has forgotten how to be a mama cow much less a mama goat

 

[aj]

DL...is a rural tale similar to a urban legend? ;D

 

[DL]

DL...is a rural tale similar to a urban legend? ;D

Exactly!

 

[kanshow]

I wonder if Mike Rowe will do that show???      ;D


The people around here that use the Holstein nurse cows don't run the cow with the calves, they put the cow in a stanchion twice a day & let the calves eat.