ET School
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Mueller Show Cattle
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I would like to know also if anyone has anything good or bad or been to the school as I'm planning to go to an embryo transfer school next year and had looked at the International Embryo Transfer school also. Anyone have any other schools anyone has been to and recommends? Not trying to steal your topic Flyin Tale Farms, just also interested.
Cowboy
Well-known member
I have personally butted heads with the owners of that school more than once in the last 30 years -- we were just starting out when he already thought he knew EVERYTHING there was to know. It's a very long story and I won't go into it any further -- but if want my opinion, solely based on many people I personally know that went there and have since failed and quit -- try a different school.
I don't have any personal experience with Ag-Tech's school, but I do know John and have bought supplies from them over the years, they have trained alot of people I hear.
I think this is the web site -- but don't hold me to it -- www.agtechinc.com
Otherwise you can surely google them by looking for Bovine Embryo Transfer School
Good luck -- it has been a fun ride for me the last 3 decades -- but I would sure as heck hate to have to learn it all over again -- WOW, just plain WOW
Terry
I don't have any personal experience with Ag-Tech's school, but I do know John and have bought supplies from them over the years, they have trained alot of people I hear.
I think this is the web site -- but don't hold me to it -- www.agtechinc.com
Otherwise you can surely google them by looking for Bovine Embryo Transfer School
Good luck -- it has been a fun ride for me the last 3 decades -- but I would sure as heck hate to have to learn it all over again -- WOW, just plain WOW
Terry
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
I sent my ex wife there 10 years ago. Dr Elsden I think was his name. IMO, he was a very grumpy old man that didnt want to take time to teach a newbie. If you dont have years of A.I. expierience, dont bother going there. Its his way or the highway. When she came back, we could flush a cow but she had so many questions and he didnt want to talk to her on the phone. We tried calling him once and got scolded so we basically sank or swim. We sank. After many tries with many cows, she quit and I became a fan of drinking again. Cost alot of money to get all that stuff and he sure didnt want to help after. I would find another school. I still got a kickass microscope from the deal tho 
My vet taught me how to semen test my own bulls with it! I still use him of course but I do all the dirty work when he is here. That was a very expensive lesson for me.
My vet taught me how to semen test my own bulls with it! I still use him of course but I do all the dirty work when he is here. That was a very expensive lesson for me.
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
Oh yeah, one more thing. Check to see if your state allows non vets to do ET work. You can do your own but here in Ohio, you cant do it for money for anyone else unless your a vet. Dr Elsden forgot to mention that to me. I understand the law and dont dispute it, I just would have liked to have that known before hand. Shame on me for not checking before.
I am actually enrolled at the ET school. I leave Sunday to begin the course Monday morning. I am a little worried now after hearing of your experience. With my class time coming near, it's obviously too late to back out and get my money back.. I will definitely keep ya'll updated throughout the week and let you know how things are going. I am hoping this course has since improved.
My plans are to take away as much as possible from the class. Things are always changing, whether it's techniques or technology, there will always be more the learn. There are not very many people here in Southern IN who are certified in ET...and I am hoping to become the go-to girl in my area. Along with starting my own show cattle business and buffing my dad's dairy herd, I think I will keep busy.
My fingers are crossed for success on my part! :-\
Now worries on stealing my topic All my teachers in school always told me " If you have a question, ask it...someone else has the exact same question" I hope I have helped you in some way......or at least maybe by next week I will be able to give you an answer one way or another.
My plans are to take away as much as possible from the class. Things are always changing, whether it's techniques or technology, there will always be more the learn. There are not very many people here in Southern IN who are certified in ET...and I am hoping to become the go-to girl in my area. Along with starting my own show cattle business and buffing my dad's dairy herd, I think I will keep busy.
My fingers are crossed for success on my part! :-\
Now worries on stealing my topic
All my teachers in school always told me " If you have a question, ask it...someone else has the exact same question" I hope I have helped you in some way......or at least maybe by next week I will be able to give you an answer one way or another.trevorgreycattleco said:I sent my ex wife there 10 years ago. Dr Elsden I think was his name. IMO, he was a very grumpy old man that didnt want to take time to teach a newbie. If you dont have years of A.I. expierience, dont bother going there. Its his way or the highway. When she came back, we could flush a cow but she had so many questions and he didnt want to talk to her on the phone. We tried calling him once and got scolded so we basically sank or swim. We sank. After many tries with many cows, she quit and I became a fan of drinking again. Cost alot of money to get all that stuff and he sure didnt want to help after. I would find another school. I still got a kickass microscope from the deal tho
Dang! I am really striking out on this deal! I am somewhat familiar with AI, and I have had my hand up there like most who are around cattle...but as far as using the equipment and actually performing the task, I haven't
trevorgreycattleco
Well-known member
You have the right attitude for sure! I would give it a try seeing your already enrolled. I dealt with them a decade ago so maybe things change. Good luck and learn as much as you can. Im sure cowboy on here would be willing to answer your questions on here. I wish I had known about steerplanet then! Wait, I dont think it exsisited yet Good luck and keep that positive attitude. It will get you along way in life.
Good luck and keep that positive attitude. It will get you along way in life.
bluffcountrycattle
Well-known member
Cowboy...do you know the "legality" of practicing embryo transfer without being a veterinarian?? Is it for personal use only? In my line of work (bovine ultrasound equipment) the AABP has a position that you must be a licensed veterinarian to diagnose pregnancy using ultrasound. Now I'm sure there are few that are enforcing it, but I do believe it would prevent a "lay" person from charging for those services. In IA I believe they changed the laws requiring you to be a veterinarian to do ET work. Any insight from an industry professional??Cowboy said:
hntwhitetail
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- Aug 11, 2010
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Sometimes.... the people w/ the best information are not the ones that spent years in school. I see this a lot of times @ work. I will always ask a laborers or operators opinion.... before calling a book guy.
Cowboy
Well-known member
Folks, I knew this was going to be a really GOOD topic when I first posted, and I now see I was right !! hhehe
First off, notice I did not mention the actual name of the individual down there in Miss. school. Trust me, he was no better at bed side manner in 1981 as he is today, in fact, he may have even gotten worse. Basicly he always felt that if you were not a lisenced vet, even back then before all this new regs came out, then you were below him. He is from Australia, not that that is a bad place, but I always kind of felt it was thier gain and our loss when he came here! Well - I beter quit.
Here is my take on some of the questions posted. I will try and keep it as short as possible.
A few years ago, there was quite a stir up in Iowa concerning a couple of LAYMEN practitioners who were failing to meet some standards of work. It caused a large scale debate on the ethics of Lay versus Vet. Iowa finally came up with a plan I hear to overcome some of that debate, basicly making every one who offers the practice to pass a series of tests and/or procedural exams to prove thier ability before hanging up the good old sign on the door. This has helped a lot -- and there are several Lay practitioners up there doing business today --- and FYI -- the very ones who caused the issue were trained by -- you got it -- the Elsden school. Go figure! I could say alot more, but I don't like lawyers alot so I won't.
As far as what it takes to be CERTIFIED in ET -- well that is also set in stone now. When I started in the early 80's, all we needed to do is prove our ability with XX number of transfers/flushes per year and meet the minimum average % -- and we were certified. I was certified in the mid 80's, already doing it for 4 years -- and was given AETS number E-875. In 1990 or 91 as far as I can remember, things became more of an issue with some of the newer vets just going into practice, and suddenly I was notified I was no longer certifiable due to not being a licensed Vet. I was frustrated of course, but it did not stop me from continuing my business and we were very busy. That was 9000 donors ago -- yes I said 9,000. I have done my very best for many years to be friends with as many good vets as possible -- don't step on toes and you won't be kicked !!!! hehehe
As far as Preg exams go, another area that has long been considered a VET only practice. I have preg checked over 50,000 cows in my career, but a large percent of those were done at home for customers already there and were a part of the business. When you go to another facilty expressly for the purpose of being paid to do pregnancy exams, it becomes another issue entirely. Liability and other issues come to the plate, and that is where your license will become important. The vets I know out here all pay alot for thier insurance to cover them in case of problems, a LAY person can not get that coverage I understand, so you are just OUT THERE. Too many issues to cover here.
For those that want to go to school and do thier own cows -- I commend you for your desire. If you are, on the other hand, planning on going just to make money at it -- you had better have a large check book and several YEARS to practice first -- because it is NOT an easily learned and perfected deal. I can almost promise you all this -- if I had not learned many many years ago, knowing today what it takes to get good at it, I would NOT try and learn it now, especially if I were wanting to offer it to others. NO WAY. Still the most frustrating thing I do is having to call a customer and tell him his cow was only marginaly successfull, or she had all dead embryos. It still kills me every time today. I do however take great pride in calling one up and telling them thier previously sub fertile cow just made a dozen excellent embryos -- the sound of joy from them is worth every sleepless night out breeding cows in the snow!!!
Call and or write any time -- I have no problems passing on information -- I enjoy it even -- gotta leave something for others when I get too old to do it right?? Don;t plan on quitting any time soon, but it sure isn't getting any easier!
Terry
First off, notice I did not mention the actual name of the individual down there in Miss. school. Trust me, he was no better at bed side manner in 1981 as he is today, in fact, he may have even gotten worse. Basicly he always felt that if you were not a lisenced vet, even back then before all this new regs came out, then you were below him. He is from Australia, not that that is a bad place, but I always kind of felt it was thier gain and our loss when he came here! Well - I beter quit.
Here is my take on some of the questions posted. I will try and keep it as short as possible.
A few years ago, there was quite a stir up in Iowa concerning a couple of LAYMEN practitioners who were failing to meet some standards of work. It caused a large scale debate on the ethics of Lay versus Vet. Iowa finally came up with a plan I hear to overcome some of that debate, basicly making every one who offers the practice to pass a series of tests and/or procedural exams to prove thier ability before hanging up the good old sign on the door. This has helped a lot -- and there are several Lay practitioners up there doing business today --- and FYI -- the very ones who caused the issue were trained by -- you got it -- the Elsden school. Go figure! I could say alot more, but I don't like lawyers alot so I won't.
As far as what it takes to be CERTIFIED in ET -- well that is also set in stone now. When I started in the early 80's, all we needed to do is prove our ability with XX number of transfers/flushes per year and meet the minimum average % -- and we were certified. I was certified in the mid 80's, already doing it for 4 years -- and was given AETS number E-875. In 1990 or 91 as far as I can remember, things became more of an issue with some of the newer vets just going into practice, and suddenly I was notified I was no longer certifiable due to not being a licensed Vet. I was frustrated of course, but it did not stop me from continuing my business and we were very busy. That was 9000 donors ago -- yes I said 9,000. I have done my very best for many years to be friends with as many good vets as possible -- don't step on toes and you won't be kicked !!!! hehehe
As far as Preg exams go, another area that has long been considered a VET only practice. I have preg checked over 50,000 cows in my career, but a large percent of those were done at home for customers already there and were a part of the business. When you go to another facilty expressly for the purpose of being paid to do pregnancy exams, it becomes another issue entirely. Liability and other issues come to the plate, and that is where your license will become important. The vets I know out here all pay alot for thier insurance to cover them in case of problems, a LAY person can not get that coverage I understand, so you are just OUT THERE. Too many issues to cover here.
For those that want to go to school and do thier own cows -- I commend you for your desire. If you are, on the other hand, planning on going just to make money at it -- you had better have a large check book and several YEARS to practice first -- because it is NOT an easily learned and perfected deal. I can almost promise you all this -- if I had not learned many many years ago, knowing today what it takes to get good at it, I would NOT try and learn it now, especially if I were wanting to offer it to others. NO WAY. Still the most frustrating thing I do is having to call a customer and tell him his cow was only marginaly successfull, or she had all dead embryos. It still kills me every time today. I do however take great pride in calling one up and telling them thier previously sub fertile cow just made a dozen excellent embryos -- the sound of joy from them is worth every sleepless night out breeding cows in the snow!!!
Call and or write any time -- I have no problems passing on information -- I enjoy it even -- gotta leave something for others when I get too old to do it right?? Don;t plan on quitting any time soon, but it sure isn't getting any easier!
Terry
Mueller Show Cattle
Well-known member
I know Wyoming allows you to practice AI and Embryo Transfer without being a vet but you have to take a test and be licensed. You can also preg test using ultrasound if you are licensed also but only vets can preg test by palpating for money, go figure. Each state has there own rules and laws in place for this stuff. At my AI school in Texas I also took a course on learning to palpate but I can't use that in Wyoming for money unless I was a vet. I can AI now for money if I take the test and get my license. I love working with cattle and loved doing AI work, so I want to continue and move into embryo work now.
Flyin Tale Farms I wish you the best of luck and hope that they have changed and you learn alot that takes you far in embryo work. Let us know how it goes.
Cowboy thank you for this information, very valuable. If I could ask you a couple questions. The International Embryo Transfer School uses and sells RPE embryo freezer which they claim has no less pregnancy rates compared to the more expensive freezer units such as the CL freeze control systems. Do you know any about this as there is a $4,000 difference in price $5,800 to $1,800. I can understand if there is a big difference and it does reflect on the pregnancy rates. That was a big question I had as there is a big difference in price between them two schools if you buy the bundle which includes a freezer and microscope as the tuition and microscope are priced close to each other in the two different schools, the freezer is the big difference. The last question is on training or schooling. Do you happen to do any hands on training or anyone else you would know that you would say would be a better learning opportunity compared to going to a class or school? That Ag Tech is in Kansas which is closer for me than the International class being in Mississippi as I live in Wyoming. Of course most people learn better from the hands on and most of the schools is hands on, so if I could find someone that teaches or trains on the side, that could be more beneficial to me than going to a school, or any other method you would recommend for learning embryo flushing, freezing and transferring. Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.
Brad
Flyin Tale Farms I wish you the best of luck and hope that they have changed and you learn alot that takes you far in embryo work. Let us know how it goes.
Cowboy thank you for this information, very valuable. If I could ask you a couple questions. The International Embryo Transfer School uses and sells RPE embryo freezer which they claim has no less pregnancy rates compared to the more expensive freezer units such as the CL freeze control systems. Do you know any about this as there is a $4,000 difference in price $5,800 to $1,800. I can understand if there is a big difference and it does reflect on the pregnancy rates. That was a big question I had as there is a big difference in price between them two schools if you buy the bundle which includes a freezer and microscope as the tuition and microscope are priced close to each other in the two different schools, the freezer is the big difference. The last question is on training or schooling. Do you happen to do any hands on training or anyone else you would know that you would say would be a better learning opportunity compared to going to a class or school? That Ag Tech is in Kansas which is closer for me than the International class being in Mississippi as I live in Wyoming. Of course most people learn better from the hands on and most of the schools is hands on, so if I could find someone that teaches or trains on the side, that could be more beneficial to me than going to a school, or any other method you would recommend for learning embryo flushing, freezing and transferring. Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.
Brad
With all of the legalities and practice act changes and the stakes ($$ value of donors) these days, I wouldn't even think about starting up an ET business unless you have a veterinary degree. It's just not worth it. Also, it will take you 10,000+ palpation/preg checks and 100+ practice flushes to get comfortable enough with manipulating the bovine uterus to get consistent results. If you don't have an avenue to get a significant number of practice reps in before going at it for real, you will fail to satisfy your/client expectations and never get off the ground.
Hooking up with and working (for years!) for a current ET practitioner who is a certified member of the AETA is in my mind the best way to get trained. These schools only take a couple of days to show the basic principles and do nothing in regards to equipping people with a skill. The real learning takes place out in the field and in practice cows.
Hooking up with and working (for years!) for a current ET practitioner who is a certified member of the AETA is in my mind the best way to get trained. These schools only take a couple of days to show the basic principles and do nothing in regards to equipping people with a skill. The real learning takes place out in the field and in practice cows.
Cowboy
Well-known member
Vert well said DRC, pretty much hit it all in one paragraph! You may even be a little generous on the numbers, it takes a real gift to get it right that quickly. I may have been lucky, but when I started, there was no one at all to talk to -- and if you did find some one, most of the time they were lying at least a little -- they sure weren't giving away any secrets back then.
Incidently -- the RPE freezer mentioned here is a MANUALLY operated tool. It has to be manipulated up and down in the neck tube of a semen tank to get the per minute drop in temp just right -- and it takes about an hour to freeze correctly. In other words -- who ever is using it has to sit there and watch the temp probe to keep it going down at the correct rate or you will flash freeze your embryos -- and that will kill them all. 1800 $ for a metal tube and a temp probe seems a bit spendy compared to the relative safety and covenience of fully computerized controlers. Once you place the embryos in the freezer, and seed them, the computer takes over and all you have to do is watch for the ending bell! Not exactly that easy, but you get the drift!
Once again, please do make sure you are prepared for the long learning process before you ever decide to try and get into comercial Et, it can be a nightmare -- and even if you are eventually very good at it -- it tends to make you OLD well before your time! I can testify to that here - for sure! Say good bye to vacations and anything close to REAL time off!! hehehe
Terry
Incidently -- the RPE freezer mentioned here is a MANUALLY operated tool. It has to be manipulated up and down in the neck tube of a semen tank to get the per minute drop in temp just right -- and it takes about an hour to freeze correctly. In other words -- who ever is using it has to sit there and watch the temp probe to keep it going down at the correct rate or you will flash freeze your embryos -- and that will kill them all. 1800 $ for a metal tube and a temp probe seems a bit spendy compared to the relative safety and covenience of fully computerized controlers. Once you place the embryos in the freezer, and seed them, the computer takes over and all you have to do is watch for the ending bell! Not exactly that easy, but you get the drift!
Once again, please do make sure you are prepared for the long learning process before you ever decide to try and get into comercial Et, it can be a nightmare -- and even if you are eventually very good at it -- it tends to make you OLD well before your time! I can testify to that here - for sure! Say good bye to vacations and anything close to REAL time off!! hehehe
Terry
Mueller Show Cattle
Well-known member
Wow, thanks Cowboy and DRC for the explanation. I definitely don't want to sitting next to my semen tank for an hour, worth the extra for the computerized freezer. I think I will wait a little while before trying embryo flushing and freezing. I am wanting to do my own cattle, will look to have others flush my cows for time being. What about embryo transplant, if it is froze, is there much difference to implant an embryo compared to AI? If you can AI efficiently, should you be able to learn to implant an embryo without much difficulty? I just don't know if it is like loading an AI gun but with an embryo and placing the embryo just inside the uterus like you would for AI. I have helped other friends AI but I don't do anything for money, my time is to valuable and I like my vacations. Thanks for your help, lot of knowledge gained? (clapping)
I just wanted to give everyone an update on how my week is goin at the ET School! I came into this course with little knowledge of AI and embryo transfer. The amount of knowledge that I have gained in just 3 days is unreal! I went from not knowing anything, to easily being able to locate the cervix in a cow! And after 3 days of learning I flushed a cow and retained 10 embryos! And I didn't even take 10000 cows like some may say it should take! That's such an exaggeration! Flushing is something that is not difficult at all. Anybody can do this!
Dr Elsden is great! He's very knowledgeable and enjoyable to be around! We have laughed and joked about different things everyday! I have learned so much and couldn't ask for a better teacher! I highly recommend the International ET School to anyone wanting to learn all about embryo transfer. I have thoroughly enjoyed the past 3 days! I am ready for the next 3 days!
Bring it on.....2 cows and 10 embryos later! Hell yes!
Dr Elsden is great! He's very knowledgeable and enjoyable to be around! We have laughed and joked about different things everyday! I have learned so much and couldn't ask for a better teacher! I highly recommend the International ET School to anyone wanting to learn all about embryo transfer. I have thoroughly enjoyed the past 3 days! I am ready for the next 3 days!
Bring it on.....2 cows and 10 embryos later! Hell yes!
colosteers
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2007
- Messages
- 93
Very cool Flyin Tale Farms-- Now that sounds like the school that I went to 8 yrs ago.
Dr Elsden is quite a teacher, does every body still go to lunch together and he talk about experiences he has had?
Keep up the good work, you will even be more excited when you get home and get your first calf.
Keep us informed
Dr Elsden is quite a teacher, does every body still go to lunch together and he talk about experiences he has had?
Keep up the good work, you will even be more excited when you get home and get your first calf.
Keep us informed
Cowboy
Well-known member
It looks like you have had an enjoyable "" 3 "" days of controlled environmental activity. GREAT -- glad for you.
However -- you are going to be leaving that school soon, and then you will be OUT there. When the real world reality sets in , and you are standing behind a cow that absolutely HATES your arm in her, and you are not able to block her properly or a thousand other things that WILL happen, you will understand my point in saying -- "It takes hundreds of transfers and MANY flushes to get good at it""
Please understand, I am all for your success, but at the same time, I can promise you that the day will come when you will run to the house crying!
To be able to get 10 eggs , from your first donor, and not ever had been to A-I school or anything is extremely lucky. I am sure that Peter wants the best result while you are there, every one should. It is when you leave there thinking how easy it is that the reality will set in later -- I wish you the best of luck in everything you do -- but you are on a very washed out and muddy road -- so just be prepared for the wreck that will happen before long, it always does.
Palpation, superovulation, breeding, embryo recovery, embryo grading, loading,freezing,transfers etc etc etc all take alot of time to perfect. It is a fun road, but VERY rough for a long time!
Good luck -- but please leave there with this understanding, you MUST go into this with a totally open mind -- not one that is full of soap suds !!!
Please do keep us all posted -- I for one would be the first to congratulate you if you are able to continue as you have started!
Terry
However -- you are going to be leaving that school soon, and then you will be OUT there. When the real world reality sets in , and you are standing behind a cow that absolutely HATES your arm in her, and you are not able to block her properly or a thousand other things that WILL happen, you will understand my point in saying -- "It takes hundreds of transfers and MANY flushes to get good at it""
Please understand, I am all for your success, but at the same time, I can promise you that the day will come when you will run to the house crying!
To be able to get 10 eggs , from your first donor, and not ever had been to A-I school or anything is extremely lucky. I am sure that Peter wants the best result while you are there, every one should. It is when you leave there thinking how easy it is that the reality will set in later -- I wish you the best of luck in everything you do -- but you are on a very washed out and muddy road -- so just be prepared for the wreck that will happen before long, it always does.
Palpation, superovulation, breeding, embryo recovery, embryo grading, loading,freezing,transfers etc etc etc all take alot of time to perfect. It is a fun road, but VERY rough for a long time!
Good luck -- but please leave there with this understanding, you MUST go into this with a totally open mind -- not one that is full of soap suds !!!
Please do keep us all posted -- I for one would be the first to congratulate you if you are able to continue as you have started!
Terry
Peter Elsden
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- 36
I have been finally persuaded by several of my ex-students to defend the vindictive,untruthful character assassination perpetrated by a T. Morris on this forum. Over 30 years ago Morris visited our Colorado State University embryo research laboratory to obtain information on how to freeze embryos.We literally received 100s of visitors at that exciting time when many of the techniques used today were being develpoed,so visitors had to be limited to when the donors were being flushed. Morris ignored this request and visited our embryo freezing laboratory several times which I allowed, until one afternoon accompanied by another equally unpleasant person they sat themselves down and would not leave.The post-Doc in this lab. ( a Japanese ) came to me and asked that I remove these two ( expletive) jerks, his words not mine,or he was returning to Japan that afternoon! I kept my cool and very politely explained the situation and suggested they attend one of our short courses on embryo freezing.They apparently did not accept my reasoned request and were escorted from the laborotory. This all occured over 30 years ago and I have had no contact with this individual over the years despite his comment in this forum. I have been accused of being'' grumpy'',this is the very opposite of my disposition.I have been accused of not replying to questions received over the internet or phone. I have always replied promptly with full explanatioin fact I encourage every class to ask for help whenever needed and I have never refused or been rude to any student.Morris claims that I believe only veterinarians should be able to perform embryo transfer.Nothing could be further from the truth.If a person undergoes formal training in both theory and practical work I do not see any reason to stop them.In fact it is my belief if we wish to see young people stay on the farm we must give them the chance to use technological advances.While bovine embryo transfer has its failures ( mainly superovulation) it is not the draconoian picture that apparently Morris has suffered.In order to prepare students for the inevitable failures I give a small lecture on the subject,in addition we superovulate the donors so that students can indeed experience the non-responders which of course happens to all of us.Morris claims to be a member of AETA,but he is not listed and he certainly is not certified as the AETA only will allow veterinarians to take the exam,I rule I objected to right from the start.There was a comment regarding a poor microscope I reportedly sold.All of the microscopes I have sold we have used in our work plus they are the same units used by the student during the class,so they have ample time to assess the units quality.Both T. Morris and Agtech have made false,derogatory remarks about my freezer (among other in correct statements). This unit is automatic after only 4 or 5 adjustments.It is accurate to .1C. The metal body is made from a very dense alloy,the only one to give repeatable results (there have been dozens of Knock- offs made). The metal is expensive to buy and the drilling of the holes is very expensive,in fact there are only two places which can perform this task.The thermocouple thermometer and probe are top of the line products.The unit is checked for accuracy by a government calibration laboratory and it has always passed.By the way the expensive power units have their problems such as power surges and power outages which have killed many embryos over the years.The person who claimed I was rude to his wife is a false report,I have never treated any student in that manner,it never happened.I have published over 50 scientific papers and written many popular articles over the years. I have worked, lectured and taught in many universities,and for USDA,foreign governments,Rockefeller etc so these comments of T.Morris have been a new experince.Since I am supposed to be grumpy,I thought I would add some comedy, so I have framed Morris's comments for all to see and have outlined his name plus Agtechs name and the personnel mentioned so readers can judge for themselves the caliber of these people they may wish to contact.
Cowboy
Well-known member
ARE YOU KIDDING ME ??????????????????
Wow
I should have known better, I really should have, this is no surprise.
Mr. Tekeda and I were actually friends for the short time I knew him, and he never did ask for me or any one else to be removed. That particular day you are refferencing Mr. Elsden was the day I had just delivered 6 Marchigana donors from Peerless Farms , due to the fact we had filled the recip herd at home, and did not have a freezer at that time! When I tried to tell you thier history, you told me "" WE will make that determination "" and I was ignored from there on.
I was never HANGING around your lab at CSU as I was over 200 miles from there. Plus I was never there later to pick up the cows with any one else, good or bad.
Peter, I never, not one time, visited your ET lab at CSU for any reason other than to pick up or deliver donors -- nice try there.
As far as me being not listed in the ranks of the AETA -- I quit paying my dues in 1992 when they decided to limit certification to Vets only, probably why I am not listed. Dr Cheryl Nelson herself issued that number - in 1987 -- as E-875 - call and ask her if she remembers me, I talked to her several months ago by the way!
My only point in all of this is simple -- this business of ET is not at all rocket engineering, but as well, can be and most of the time IS very frustrating. I wanted to make sure the above poster was not unprepared for the inevitable failures that will happen to every one.
In case you may be wondering Peter, I have done work for MANY members of Steer PLanet, so in case you would like to question my demeaner as well, just ask. I think Jason needs to just pull this entire post and pretend it never happened, I will never stand up and admit I know things like this again, I hope you have a fine day and year, I can see you are not alot different now than in 1981.
Best redards to all involved.
Terry
Wow
I should have known better, I really should have, this is no surprise.
Mr. Tekeda and I were actually friends for the short time I knew him, and he never did ask for me or any one else to be removed. That particular day you are refferencing Mr. Elsden was the day I had just delivered 6 Marchigana donors from Peerless Farms , due to the fact we had filled the recip herd at home, and did not have a freezer at that time! When I tried to tell you thier history, you told me "" WE will make that determination "" and I was ignored from there on.
I was never HANGING around your lab at CSU as I was over 200 miles from there. Plus I was never there later to pick up the cows with any one else, good or bad.
Peter, I never, not one time, visited your ET lab at CSU for any reason other than to pick up or deliver donors -- nice try there.
As far as me being not listed in the ranks of the AETA -- I quit paying my dues in 1992 when they decided to limit certification to Vets only, probably why I am not listed. Dr Cheryl Nelson herself issued that number - in 1987 -- as E-875 - call and ask her if she remembers me, I talked to her several months ago by the way!
My only point in all of this is simple -- this business of ET is not at all rocket engineering, but as well, can be and most of the time IS very frustrating. I wanted to make sure the above poster was not unprepared for the inevitable failures that will happen to every one.
In case you may be wondering Peter, I have done work for MANY members of Steer PLanet, so in case you would like to question my demeaner as well, just ask. I think Jason needs to just pull this entire post and pretend it never happened, I will never stand up and admit I know things like this again, I hope you have a fine day and year, I can see you are not alot different now than in 1981.
Best redards to all involved.
Terry
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Looking for info on the Grand Champion bull from the 1971 Buckeye Expo
- Latest: wannabcowguy
