Ethics (non-cattle)

[pjkjr4]

In our particular community, there are quite a few kids that show pigs. Mostly younger, 4-H kids, but some FFA kids. We all (for the most part work together) with most of the parents yielding to the FFA advisor as far as selection, feed, etc. I was told by a friend of mine who's son is a freshman FFA meber, and officer (great kid, great family) that they sold one of their gilts now that the shows are over to a classmate who wanted to breed her. The FFA advisor was the one who instigated this whole deal, and set the price ($150.00). He then instructed the buyer to give him the money, and he would give it to the other family. When he did, he told the kid and his dad that he normally gets a commission and that he would like to have $20.00 for doing this. When he told me this, smoke started coming out of my ears. The only resources he used on this deal belonged to the school (pickup, fuel, cell phone, etc.).
I knew i wanted to post this, but I needed a couple of days to cool off. However, every time I think about it my blood still boils.  I know $20.00 is not very much, but it's more than the money. It's just not right.

I have 2 kids, one is 4-H age and the other will be in 4-H in less than 2 years. When it comes time, I will have a hard time wanting them to be in FFA if he is still the advisor. He is around 30 years old, and alumni of our school, so I don't see him going anywhere. I just don't know if I will be able to trust him. I certainly have lost all my respect for him.

Sorry this is so long, but I really needed to vent. Am I right or wrong?

 

[GoWyo]

Check the school district policies.  They probably have policies prohibiting teachers and FFA advisors from engaging in matters where they will have a conflict of interest.  Their own business interests can conflict with their teaching and advising duties and the teaching duties have to prevail or the FFA advisor has to make a full disclosure to both parties of his potential conflict and get them to waive his conflict.  He may not understand this and some FFA advisors seem to have a learning disability when it comes to issues of conflict of interest on their own side businesses or children, but I think they need to be called on it, at least gently at first.

 

[shortdawg]

We give ours a big Thank You and a gift card to a local restaurant after our local show and they are more than happy. I feel what your guy did is out of line.

 

[knabe]

options

get a new advisor
enact rules specifically outlawing this
enact rules specifically allowing this as you might be suprised who you aren't able to hire because of limitation
tell him you want all the money as the 20 bucks wasn't stipulated beforehand and it's bad form for him not to state his commission beforehand.

if he doesn't give it to you, and admit he wasn't clear on his fees, then i would start doing an audit.

get it spelled out.  then, if you don't like the rules, at least going into something like this, you know the ground rules.

 

[pjkjr4]

Well, the ones that have replied agree with me. Kinda what I thought. I am going to confront him about it, but I don't know if I will talk to the administration or not. I think I'll wait and see what he has to say for himself. My wife (who is also a teacher at the same high school) and I stood up for him alot when other parents dogged him about other things (not dishonest stuff) and I feel like he's dragging us down with him.
I guess if he tries much of this type of crap, his FFA enrollment will drop off to the point that they won't need him anymore.

There is nothing in the policy manual about this. But an honest person does the right thing when noone is watching.

 

[steer-guy]

Part of his job is assisting families when purchasing animals when ever it is needed. Advise on feeding, boarding and day to day care of the prospects for his FFA kids. It is absolutly rediculous to recieve a commission for that. They are to promote the FFA program and this happens through the students. That would be like him hauling prospects to the show for families (which much of them do) and wanting to be paid by the mile and per head! Keep in mind, during all this time they are being paid by the school district.
Out of line as far as I'm concerned. Would not deal with these types of individuals!

 

[Davis Shorthorns]

Did he pocket the money or did it go to the FFA???  Even if it went to the FFA he should have said something before and should give you the option of getting your money back.  I would defiantly go to the administration about this.  That is just wrong ESPECIALLY since he was using school equipment to make the deal.  I bet there would be something in the rules about that. 

 

[clifflem]

If I had made $20/head on every animal I have bought or helped sell for my FFA kids, I could retire.  Seriously, talk to the teacher.  You may not be getting all the story.  I usually just try to get the 2 parties together and help them agree on a price.  As educators, we don't need to be in the business of trading with our own kids.  I think the only fair way to sell to your own kids is at an auction.  Everyone has the same opportunity to buy and they can set their own price.

 

[pjkjr4]

UPDATE: My wife called me at lunch time. Shewas in her room before school. The HS principal (former ag teacher from another town) came in to talk to her about something. Ater whatever it was got discussed, she told him about the situation. He said that it was COMPLETELY unethical and out of line. She did tell him that this was told to us in confidence (no one knows me here, so I think Im ok....shoot, what I'm doing may be unethical.....you be the judge). He said that he was not going to say anything to the ag teacher now, but if the parents, or the student came to him, he would go after him. He (principal) said that when he was teaching ag, that if any 4-H or FFA child or parent needed anything done, that all they needed to do was call him and he would do everything he could to help. NO CHARGE!

 

[jeffb1]

Color me pink, but I've got to say to those who may not be aware, it is OK. I do not mean that in a derogatory fashion as I do a substantial business there. That's the way many function(not all mind you ! ) While I don't agree with what took place, I can tell you I've clipped calves and helped fit for kids that the ag teachers didn't want to help either because the kids didn't go through him/her to get the calves or they didn't spend enough money to get his/her attention or parents have conflict with the teacher, etc., etc.,etc... I don't mind it, it's part of the service we provide for folks buying calves, but just don't be too surprised by what has happened, from my experiences, it is not that uncommon. JM2C, JB

 

[AAOK]

Well, the ones that have replied agree with me. Kinda what I thought. I am going to confront him about it, but I don't know if I will talk to the administration or not. I think I'll wait and see what he has to say for himself. My wife (who is also a teacher at the same high school) and I stood up for him alot when other parents dogged him about other things (not dishonest stuff) and I feel like he's dragging us down with him.
I guess if he tries much of this type of crap, his FFA enrollment will drop off to the point that they won't need him anymore.

There is nothing in the policy manual about this. But an honest person does the right thing when noone is watching.

There may not be anything in the Policy Manual, but there is plenty to be said about such matters in School Law.  You are best to confront the FFA Advisor first, as this is usually school policy by chain of command.  He probably does not even understand he is acting in an unethical way.  If he can't see a problem, then go to his Principal, and from there, the Superintendant.  These type situations rarely make it to the school board.

As to you kids, and their future with FFA, don't let the "Advisor" get in the way.  A careing parent is a much better advisor, and every bit as able to help with projects.  Your children can still be in 4-H for their specific programs, and compete in FFA as well.  As an "Ag" parent with two grown daughters, I can assure you there is nothing the FFA advisor can do for your children that you can't do better.

 

[ba]

That is considered an extra curricular activity and the monies for the programs
are supposed to the school treasure for accounting on where the program stands.
If the school is providing the truck,fuel and so forth Ill bet he is geeting paid
extra for outor after of school activity's so is this an extra Dip of sorts?

 

[shortdawg]

There's a thing called extended day that the Ag Teacher gets paid with. I serve on our school board and I attend training that deals with every situation in the book. I would consider this an ethics violation. We buy our Ag Teachers lunch, dinner, etc. As a token of gratitude for their help but no cash ... Ever !

 

[chambero]

Ag teachers and county agents down here are involved in all kinds of extracurricular transactions so to speak.  It is very common for an ag teacher to only take their school kids to certain places to buy animals.  In exchange, their biological kids get real good "deals".  In some cases, the ag teachers actually buy the animals themselves and then resell them to their kids for a profit.  Sometimes, breeders flat out pay ag teachers a commission to bring buyers to them.

The problem is when does an Ag teachers job stop?  They don't have to spend their free time helping kids find calves, etc.  Lots of them help out all summer long.  Some are very legitimate breeders or traders themselves.  Is it wrong for them to make a profit on a kid?

It's a grey area that's hard to give a straight answer on.  I guess I'd rather do whatever it takes to keep an Ag teacher/agent happy that actually cares and works at it vs. one that does nothing but work 8-3.  That's the kind I had in school and it wasn't much fun.

 

[Jill]

I guess for me, I don't think it would be against the rules, but for me it would seriously call his ethics into question, there isn't anything wrong with paying or asking for a commission, but if he was expecting one that should have been discussed before the transaction took place.

 

[GoWyo]

Seems to me that the Ag Teacher needs to disclose to his students and their families when he or she is not acting in the capacity of Ag Teacher.  Nothing wrong with having a side business raising and/or trading show animals or whatever, but when they are arranging a sale or being a promoter for a breeder, and they are receiving a financial benefit for it, they should disclose that to the student so that everyone is aware when the Ag Teacher is acting in his or her own best interests rather than in the best interest of the student or the program.  Nothing worse that the student and their family thinking that Ag Teacher is looking out for them and then finding out that Ag Teacher is looking out for himself -- makes people mad.  Disclosure takes away the misunderstandings and allows the student to decide whether they want to look at other ways to buy, sell or trade.  The key is disclosure, not whether the Ag Teacher makes a buck from his or her specialized knowledge and position.

 

[Jill]

Thanks you, that was exactly what I was trying to say, well put!

 

[afhm]

Sounds like you have the typical and unfotunately very common "paycheck getter" instead of a ag teacher.