Feeding a month and half old calf.

[SheilAnneDavis]

Hello,

Yesterday we found the dam to the bull calf by Krugerrand 410H I've mentioned here before dead in the field. We aren't sure what happened, we found her after she'd been dead for a day or two. I am just hearing things second hand from my mom, but she was unable to find any bullet holes upon first inspection (as they were pastured along the river, and there are idiots who don't realize whats on the other side and shoot into the river,)  but she could only inspect the side she wasn't laying on yesterday. She had blood from her mouth and other than that there isn't much to go on. Grass Tetany doesn't seem likely as they have been well supplemented, as it's a common problem in our area.  We are quite aways away from anyone who could even do a necropsy, but we are pretty sure it's likely just a freak thing. While it would be a piss off, it would be more reassuring to find a bullet hole to know there isn't some other problem lurking.

However, now we've got her bull calf that is about 1 1/2 months old, it appears that he's been getting by the last day or two by stealing milk, but it's time to get him in and get him started on feed. We're really hoping to be able to grow him up enough to breed 10 or so cows as a yearling. Does anyone have suggestions as to what feed program we should get him on to help him not fall too far behind?

 

[accattleco]

I have tons of experience at this.  We have had orphan calves go on to win county fairs (not bucket calf shows) and compete at national shows like Louiville.  The trick is to not fall into the trap of feeding him alot of forage.  Calves his age don't have a truly functional rumen and even if they did, forage does not have enough energy to do much for them.  First you need a good milk replacer like Hubbard Feeds Calf Beginner 20-20 (preferably with Biomos).  Do not spare expense on this!  Secondly, you need a quality calf starter (texturized feed) like Hubbard Feeds Elite 18 (once again, do not skimp.)  Baby calves have high protein and energy requirments so you can't skimp.  You will need to work the calf up to two quarts of milk replacer morning and night (4 quarts daily) and offer the Elite 18 buy the handfull to start with (do not put too much out as it will go out of condition.)  Also offer clean water!!  You should be able to work the calf up to 3 lb of Elite 18 over a couple week period.  If he does not come up on the dry feed, you may need to back the milk replacer down to 1 1/2 quarts morning and night.  There's a little bit of an art to this.  One 50 lb bag of milk replacer will be adequate.  Drop down to 2 quarts of milk replacer daily one week prior to weaning off of the milk replacer.  The calf must be eating a minimum of 3 lb of Elite 18, prior to weaning off of milk replacer and he will go up from there when you take the milk away (you can even go down to 1 quart / day to make the weaning process smoother.)  Do not offer forage to the calf prior to weaning off of milk replacer.  After weaning, offer Elite 18 free-choice along with a small amount of hay.  When you run out of the Elite 18, switch to Show-Rite Elite creep plus hay.  Put him back with your calves when you wean.  The process works great and they look like show animals not bucket calves when you are done.

 

[cornish]

month and a half old calf doesn't need any milk.  our dairy calves are weaned at 5-6 weeks-- and do just fine as yearlings breeding cows.

Put him in a small pen- with unlimited grain covered in liquid molasis-- and let him eat.  Offer good choice hay as well. 

Grass is your worst enemy in this case.  Pen him up- and make him eat the grain...

 

[accattleco]

It depends on what you plan to do with the calf down the road.  If it is just to retain in the herd then yes, you can get transitioned over to grain quickly (although I would not throw the calf in a pen without milk if it has never seen grain before.)  If we are talking show cattle then that is an entirely different beast than dairy calves.  Unlimited grain had better contain a high-protein supplement also.

 

[cornish]

It depends on what you plan to do with the calf down the road.  If it is just to retain in the herd then yes, you can get transitioned over to grain quickly (although I would not throw the calf in a pen without milk if it has never seen grain before.)  If we are talking show cattle then that is an entirely different beast than dairy calves.  Unlimited grain had better contain a high-protein supplement also.

so are you saying that my shorthorn and clubby bred bottle calves-- have all been raised wrong historically? 

With the right feed- it doesn't matter what you do- those calves are going to grow.

Most of the best show cattle calves in this country- are getting weaned at 3 months of age-- this calf is almost there RIGHT NOW.  Calves grow on grain-- not grass- and not with milk. 

 

[accattleco]

So are you saying that all they get is grain?  No protein?  No mineral?  Yes, we generally wean calves off of milk at around 6 weeks of age.  And there are alot of people that wean calves when they pull the CIDR's on thier cows (some do it right, some don't.)  But grain alone, without proper balancing, is not the optimum ration for those calves.  And they have been on a grain mix (with protein and minerals), prior to weaning.  All I'm saying is that the calf needs to be consuming a properly balanced, high-protein, grain mix at at least 3 lb/d prior to taking him completely off of milk.  After that, pour the coals to him!  You keep saying "grain" as if you just dump corn in with nothing else.

 

[LostFarmer]

It depends on what you plan to do with the calf down the road.  If it is just to retain in the herd then yes, you can get transitioned over to grain quickly (although I would not throw the calf in a pen without milk if it has never seen grain before.)  If we are talking show cattle then that is an entirely different beast than dairy calves.  Unlimited grain had better contain a high-protein supplement also.

so are you saying that my shorthorn and clubby bred bottle calves-- have all been raised wrong historically? 

With the right feed- it doesn't matter what you do- those calves are going to grow.

Most of the best show cattle calves in this country- are getting weaned at 3 months of age-- this calf is almost there RIGHT NOW.  Calves grow on grain-- not grass- and not with milk. 

Then why do we have a milk epd if it doesn't matter?  This is might not be the most asinine thing you have ever said but darn close.  All mammals need milk as babies.  A good calf starter can help but you still need milk. 

Back on topic.  I have a family milk cow that I bottle feed calves on when needed.  I have found that smaller feedings more times a day and the calves do better.  I will bottle feed at minimum of 3 times a day.  Calves will nurse on mamma a little at a time all day long.  I have also found that using a bottle with a small nipple helps the calf get more saliva and therefor they digest the milk better.  I don't like putting calves on buckets.  I keep water available but the milk comes from a bottle.  To raise a bucket calf right takes time.  I have 2 now that at a month old are drinking 3.5 gallons and 4 gallons of milk in 5 feedings through out the day.  First one is at 5 am and the last one at 10 pm.  The calves never get the pot bellied bucket calf look.  Yes it takes time. 

 

[SheilAnneDavis]

Thank you everyone for your input so far. We are not needing him to be a show calf by any means, just want to make sure he grows well and doesn't end up too far behind. Worst part about it is that it'll be hard to compare him to everyone else as he grows, hopefully in time he'll develop as well as we were hoping when he was born. He'll likely be around on our place for 3-4 years, so he'll have time to fill in eventually.

One thing I'm unsure about, and may lead us towards trying to just get him on a calf starter, is that he's never been handled and I can't imagine that he'd be willing to take a bottle if we tried. Last year we had a Jersey cow my younger cousin was given to raise some twins for us, but of course, we sold her, so she's not around when we need her!

Does anyone have any opinions on Purina feeds and what kinds would work best for getting him on? That is what our local feed store carries, I'm not 100% sure what all they have, but hopefully something by them that will fit the bill.

 

[SSIMMENTALS]

You stated he was stealing. If he would choose a foster mom, could you pen him, her, and her calf in a smaller pasture so you could set out creep for him and make sure mama had enough to eat to milk for two? If so, you could let her help raise him until he learned what feed was and then wean. I know its far fetched, but we've done it before. Good luck!

 

[cornish]

It depends on what you plan to do with the calf down the road.  If it is just to retain in the herd then yes, you can get transitioned over to grain quickly (although I would not throw the calf in a pen without milk if it has never seen grain before.)  If we are talking show cattle then that is an entirely different beast than dairy calves.  Unlimited grain had better contain a high-protein supplement also.

so are you saying that my shorthorn and clubby bred bottle calves-- have all been raised wrong historically? 

With the right feed- it doesn't matter what you do- those calves are going to grow.

Most of the best show cattle calves in this country- are getting weaned at 3 months of age-- this calf is almost there RIGHT NOW.  Calves grow on grain-- not grass- and not with milk. 

Then why do we have a milk epd if it doesn't matter?  This is might not be the most asinine thing you have ever said but darn close.  All mammals need milk as babies.  A good calf starter can help but you still need milk. 

Back on topic.  I have a family milk cow that I bottle feed calves on when needed.  I have found that smaller feedings more times a day and the calves do better.  I will bottle feed at minimum of 3 times a day.  Calves will nurse on mamma a little at a time all day long.  I have also found that using a bottle with a small nipple helps the calf get more saliva and therefor they digest the milk better.  I don't like putting calves on buckets.  I keep water available but the milk comes from a bottle.  To raise a bucket calf right takes time.  I have 2 now that at a month old are drinking 3.5 gallons and 4 gallons of milk in 5 feedings through out the day.  First one is at 5 am and the last one at 10 pm.  The calves never get the pot bellied bucket calf look.  Yes it takes time. 

past 6 to 8 weeks of age-- they don't need any milk- and really the colostrum is the most important part-- MILLIONS, maybe even BILLIONS of dairy animals are raised each year without milk past that time period. I'd sure like to see you argue that without the milk- they won't grow-- b/c when you do-- I'll demand you show me a yearling Holstein heifer that's smaller than ANY BEEF yearling heifer- not to mention 2 year olds. 

I don't know why we have a milk EPD-- it has nothing to do with actual milk production=-- it's addition pounds of calf at weaning due to milk production.  Milk EPD's need to be moderate- as whenm extremes are selected for-- you get problems. 

Always keep in mind- EPD's are only as accurate as the people turning in numbers, and the moron's believing them.

 

[LostFarmer]

I raised calves on one of those big dairies.  Maybe not millions but 500+ bottle calves a year.  The starter we used was basically the same as milk replacer in the form of a pellet.  It had some grains and other stuff but by and large was milk in another form.  I friend of mine and his brothers have a business raising dairy calves.  They feed out heifers for some dairies and also steers for the california dairy feed lots.  Last year they fed over 10,000 bottle calves.  You can't skip the milk.  You may give it to them in a powder or pellet form but the nutrient is the same.  Dead ones or calves that don't grow don't make them money.