Feelings on WAGR Dream Catcher?
- Thread starter Simmgal
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firesweepranch
Well-known member
I have seen one, and I am not real happy with him. He is out of a super deep, super soggy cow that is super thick. This calf was horned, and broken behind his shoulders. It is a little soon to tell, but the calf seems bold in the shoulder (he is about 6 months old). Not as good as his dam, in my opinion, but I LOVE his dam! I think her calf was much better last year. His head is also plain, kind of ugly. And, he is a purebred calf. Just my opinion, but I do not think it was a good cross!
Remember, this is just one calf. No bull will cross with EVERY cow, so you can not evaluate Dream Catcher, or any bull for that matter, on just one calf.
Remember, this is just one calf. No bull will cross with EVERY cow, so you can not evaluate Dream Catcher, or any bull for that matter, on just one calf.
That's interesting. 
Everyone I talk to says they love him. I just kept second guessing myself when I looked at his pictures, and I haven't seen too many offspring. I would want to use him on bigger cows that need their fronts cleaned up and need more depth. Do you know where I could find a picture of the calf or it's dam?
Everyone I talk to says they love him. I just kept second guessing myself when I looked at his pictures, and I haven't seen too many offspring. I would want to use him on bigger cows that need their fronts cleaned up and need more depth. Do you know where I could find a picture of the calf or it's dam?We have a 3/4 heifer calf sired by DC and she is ok but would sure like to see more growth & depth. I'm hoping it will come. I've heard that sometimes they can be a little tubely but I've seen some really good yearling heifers so I am maintaining hope.
I don't have any calves out of him myself yet but I'm flushing to him right now and have seen a few. You are definitely correct that he as well as any bull needs to be mated correctly. From what I've seen he is best used on soggy angus cows. He's more popular in the clubby business and to make simangus halfbloods. I wouldn't say he adds depth, he is a little high flanked himself. He should clean up fronts and improve structure. I think he's scurred himself but on angus cows shouldn't have any trouble.
inthebarnagain
Well-known member
We've had 4 dreamcatchers, one bull and two heifers. The bull went to the yards when weaned because he was just an ordinary calf, would've been a good fat but our daughter only shows heifers and we don't have much of a steer market. The two heifers we kept in the herd. The only gripe we have is that he can take the rear end right off of one. Our daughter showed one of the dreamcatchers and she profiled beautifully and was wide but when you got in behind her She was severely lacking in her lower third. She is a 3 year old and has had two beautiful calves and is a wonderful mother, the other one was bred to a black cow that must have had some red Angus in her because this one is solid red. She is a two year old and we are anxiously awaiting her first calf, beautiful heifer and looks like she is going to have a really good udder. We have another 4 month old heifer that is a gorgeous little baldy that is going to be in the show string next year, cant wait.
He has added frame to every calf we have out of him and will stamp a gorgeous profile but like I said, can take the butt off of one. If you look at his mature pic you will see the kind of rear you can get from him
He has added frame to every calf we have out of him and will stamp a gorgeous profile but like I said, can take the butt off of one. If you look at his mature pic you will see the kind of rear you can get from him
I think that I can now give my opinion as well.
We had 4 or 5 DC's this year, so I have something to go by. DC was bred to some of our best cows. We have one nice heifer that is a natural calf out of a donor, but she's not in the top 10% of our heifers. As a sire group, certainly not toward the top. After analyzing his calves, I'd say that he maintains bone, they are good structured and have style, but I think he might give up some performance, thickness, and body depth. If we continue to use him, it will be selectively...probably to pretty things up only.
You always hear that certain Simmentals work great on "broody Angus cows." Well, in my opinion, a broody Angus cow is simply the "fix all" for any Simmental bull that doesn't throw enough guts. I'm being too opinionated today, but thinking of the Simmental bulls that work well on Angus cows...Macho, Meyer, etc...in most cases, these bulls don't throw enough guts when bred to purebred Simm cows...unless the cow can make up for the bull's shortcomings. To me, most Simmental bulls work excellent on Angus cows...just the perfect cross. We have one Simmental cow that carried Dream Catcher well, but she's a powerhouse...I think she'd carry Meyer and Macho as well...takes a special cow.
Anyway, DC probably wasn't all that I was hoping that he was gonna be on purebred cows. I will concur that he makes some phenomenal halfbloods.
We had 4 or 5 DC's this year, so I have something to go by. DC was bred to some of our best cows. We have one nice heifer that is a natural calf out of a donor, but she's not in the top 10% of our heifers. As a sire group, certainly not toward the top. After analyzing his calves, I'd say that he maintains bone, they are good structured and have style, but I think he might give up some performance, thickness, and body depth. If we continue to use him, it will be selectively...probably to pretty things up only.
You always hear that certain Simmentals work great on "broody Angus cows." Well, in my opinion, a broody Angus cow is simply the "fix all" for any Simmental bull that doesn't throw enough guts. I'm being too opinionated today, but thinking of the Simmental bulls that work well on Angus cows...Macho, Meyer, etc...in most cases, these bulls don't throw enough guts when bred to purebred Simm cows...unless the cow can make up for the bull's shortcomings. To me, most Simmental bulls work excellent on Angus cows...just the perfect cross. We have one Simmental cow that carried Dream Catcher well, but she's a powerhouse...I think she'd carry Meyer and Macho as well...takes a special cow.
Anyway, DC probably wasn't all that I was hoping that he was gonna be on purebred cows. I will concur that he makes some phenomenal halfbloods.
You got that right Husker! I think he - like most other bulls - has to be bred to the right kind of cow. We are all looking for the 'fix-all' bull and he isn't that. The calves are made right and pretty fronted - but just not enough thickness & depth & growth for me.. and then you see a good one like AStar's heifer so you know he can produce a good one now & then!
Did you breed any Grandmasters last year? If so how do they compare? I used Built Right and Dream Catcher on Angus last year and would definitely say the BR calves are deeper bodied, softer made and more moderate framed. My DC are hairier and a notch bigger boned. Of course my DC calves are bulls and 1 of them is pretty good. I have 3 BR daughters that I am really excited about and they are getting better every day. I will definitely use more BR in the future and am undecided on DC, I did breed 2 to him for next year and will wait and see. I know Werning's sell the heck out of the DC calves. I am anxious to see some Grandmaster's as I did not get any settled last year.husker1 said:
CAB
Well-known member
Is DC a ful sib to Hartman's Driver bull?
kfacres
Well-known member
Not to highjack the thread...Simmgal said:Okay, so hes not a SUPERBULL, but he's good for crossing. I think I got it! haha.. If he doesn't, what Simmi bulls add depth...and, dare I say it?..Clean fronts!
I'm gona just talk in livestock sense.. but typically to me... most of the time when we're discussing sires that add body depth, the next word will NOT be anything to pretty, ie; clean fronts, extended necks, or "pretty" fronted. It happens, maybe in only my eyes, that sires who add, or maintain body depth will coarsen up the offsping, add body girth, and almost always substance.
Now, when I think of a sire that will be promoted as a producer of pretty, extended, clean fronted offspring-- the first thing that comes to mind is shallow bodied, and harder looking.
I really think that this type of sire cannot exist naturally- according to the nature of livestock breeding and genetics. Now, I'm not up on my Simi background (other than a tad bulls I've seen in person) so I cannot be for certain.
Maybe somebody else can chime in...
I guess that maybe Dream On might have been the only thing that I've consistantely seem perhaps the most 'ideal' in. Maybe that's why 95% of the Simi's trace to him within 3 generations?
I've been around Rendition a little in my days, and his owner even more (for years). I'd say that I were making Simi's.. he'd be my go to bull for adding to the "whole picture."
the truth said:Not to highjack the thread...Simmgal said:Okay, so hes not a SUPERBULL, but he's good for crossing. I think I got it! haha.. If he doesn't, what Simmi bulls add depth...and, dare I say it?..Clean fronts!
I'm gona just talk in livestock sense.. but typically to me... most of the time when we're discussing sires that add body depth, the next word will NOT be anything to pretty, ie; clean fronts, extended necks, or "pretty" fronted. It happens, maybe in only my eyes, that sires who add, or maintain body depth will coarsen up the offsping, add body girth, and almost always substance.
Now, when I think of a sire that will be promoted as a producer of pretty, extended, clean fronted offspring-- the first thing that comes to mind is shallow bodied, and harder looking.
I really think that this type of sire cannot exist naturally- according to the nature of livestock breeding and genetics. Now, I'm not up on my Simi background (other than a tad bulls I've seen in person) so I cannot be for certain.
Maybe somebody else can chime in...
I guess that maybe Dream On might have been the only thing that I've consistantely seem perhaps the most 'ideal' in. Maybe that's why 95% of the Simi's trace to him within 3 generations?
I've been around Rendition a little in my days, and his owner even more (for years). I'd say that I were making Simi's.. he'd be my go to bull for adding to the "whole picture."
Haha..that's why I dared to say it! I figured that it would be really hard to find an "ideal" bull. I was wondering this, because on some bull descriptions, I will see : "Adds depth and power with a clean, attractive front". I wasn't too sure if I could believe this. I too have noticed that in order to get the depth and power, you have to sacrifice the flawless front, while if you want that front, you loose the power. I was just curious as to what y'all thought.
I would have to state that Dream On added body depth as well as any bull that we've tried. I've told many people to use Built Right just like you used Dream On and you'll like the results.
Someone asked if we've tried Grandmaster...just had the first 3 this year. Calved acceptably, the growth seems good to this point, but they are not as eye-appealing as the Dream On lines. The calves that we have are all toward the top 1/4 of the calf crop, but none are at the top...However, I can live with those top quarter calves!
Renditon seems to be gaining alot of followers...I intend on studying him closer for breeding the falls this year.
Someone asked if we've tried Grandmaster...just had the first 3 this year. Calved acceptably, the growth seems good to this point, but they are not as eye-appealing as the Dream On lines. The calves that we have are all toward the top 1/4 of the calf crop, but none are at the top...However, I can live with those top quarter calves!
Renditon seems to be gaining alot of followers...I intend on studying him closer for breeding the falls this year.
