First Time A.I.er

[Taylor Rock Show Cattle]

This will be my first time artificial inseminating my cattle. I was look through sure books and directories. How far do you have to go back in your cows pedigree and the bulls pedigree to breed them together. I have a really good monopoly X foreplay cow and I really want to breed her to Walks Alone but they both have heat wave in their pedigree. Thanks

 

[AndersenClubCalves]

That would be fine. There are plenty of people out there that wouldn't even be scared to breed her right back to monopoly. Line breeding it's not a bad thing and has its place in some matings.

 

[farmboy]

Please tell me you've had her tested for TH

 

[AndersenClubCalves]

Please tell me you've had her tested for TH

Oh that's a good one forgot about that little detail ha

 

[showsteerdlux]

Please tell me you've had her tested for TH

Monopoly isn't a "hot" carrier, and neither is WA. I wouldn't be scared of that.

 

[twistedhshowstock]

Please tell me you've had her tested for TH

Monopoly isn't a "hot" carrier, and neither is WA. I wouldn't be scared of that.

I dont understand what a "hot" carrier is?  The way I was taught they are either a carrier or not, and any carrier has the same likelihood of passing the gene on? Are they saying there are some bulls that have a higher percentage of their calves being carriers or deffective?

 

[KSUwildcat2009]

Monopoly and Walks Alone are both TH carriers!!!  A carrier is a carrier, I'm not sure what you mean by "hot" carrier...  Anything that is THC has a 50% chance of passing on the TH affected allele.

 

[farmboy]

there is no such thing as a "hot carrier"... is that some BS logic or what?  (lol)

I'll just assume Taylor Rock hasn't had her tested

 

[hntwhitetail]

Please tell me you've had her tested for TH

Monopoly isn't a "hot" carrier, and neither is WA. I wouldn't be scared of that.

Are you saying some bulls have a higer % of throwing a thc out of clean cows??

 

[KSUwildcat2009]

Please tell me you've had her tested for TH

Monopoly isn't a "hot" carrier, and neither is WA. I wouldn't be scared of that.

Are you saying some bulls have a higer % of throwing a thc out of clean cows??

No, the chances of a carrier bull and a clean cow having a carrier calf are always 50%.  I'm confused by what showsteer means by a "hot carrier". 

 

[KSUwildcat2009]

[/quote]

Can we get rid of Zach and bring back Cut the BS? At least he is some respectable experience. As for "hot" carriers, they do exist, some TH carrier bulls do have a tendency to through more carrier calves than others. Look at Improver 57th, you mean to tell me if I breed 10 cows to him, Ill get 5 free calves? Doubt it.

[/quote]


I am not trying to be rude with this comment, but please scientifically explain to me how you feel this is true. 

If T represents the normal TH allele and t represents the mutated/affected allele, an animal that is Tt has a 50% chance of passing on T and a 50% chance of passing on t.  Yes it is a probability game, I will give you that, and sample size can alter what we see in real life but that doesn't change the fact that half of the time you will get a THC when breeding THC x THF.

 

[farmboy]

You're mistaking the chance of transmission (50%) with randomness. You're not guarenteed 5/10 TH carriers if you breed 10 cows to th carriers. You could get 0/10. Unless you have some unreleased genetics info we don't know about

 

[KSUwildcat2009]

You're mistaking the chance of transmission (50%) with randomness. You're not guarenteed 5/10 TH carriers if you breed 10 cows to th carriers. You could get 0/10. Unless you have some unreleased genetics info we don't know about

I'm not arguing that it is possible that you won't get a single carrier, you could get really lucky.  Chances are more in the favor that you will see closer to 5 than 0 though.  And it can also go the other way.  You can get really unlucky (or lucky if you are looking for the increased bone, etc that comes with THC animals) and get 8 or 9 out of your 10 calves that are THC. 

It is generally known and accepted based on the laws of Mendelian inheritance that 50% of the time when mating THC x THF you will get THC.  This is saying that you have a 50% chance of getting THC, and you also have 50% chance of getting THF with every single mating you make.  I think we've digressed from the original topic and that if you are going to breed a Monopoly daughter to Walks Alone, you really oughta test her first so you don't end up with dead calf for a reason you could have prevented.


That being said, if you are still interested in the genetics and probabilities....

"Yes it is a probability game, I will give you that, and sample size can alter what we see in real life..."  If you increase the number of observations to say 50, you will see closer to 25, and again if we increase the number of matings to 500, you are going to see closer to 250.  Trust me when I say that the geneticists test the statistics to confirm autosomal recessive inheritance.  If you would like me to go into how it is tested I can.

Sometimes its easier to think about it in an example we all know well.  If you flip a coin you have a 50% chance of getting heads and a 50% chance of getting tails.  If you only do it 10 times, you aren't going to get 5 heads and 5 tails every time.  You will see variation.  Providing you have a fair coin, as you increase the number of times you flip your coin you are going to find you get closer and closer to 50% of the flips resulting in heads and 50% of the flips resulting in tails.

To say that a bull is a "hot carrier" and has a higher chance of producing a THC or THF calf when mated to a THF cow is completely against the laws of inheritance.  He has the same chances of passing on T as he does t (see above example) no matter what!

 

[farmboy]

Reread my post. Me and you aren't disagreeing on anything. I'm arguing this whole "hot carrier" thing too.

 

[KSUwildcat2009]

Well that makes a little more sense then.  (lol) I was confused why you were agreeing then disagreeing, haha.  Maybe it's a sign I shouldn't stay up past about 9PM.  SORRY!

 

[ZNT]

Please tell me you've had her tested for TH

Monopoly isn't a "hot" carrier, and neither is WA. I wouldn't be scared of that.

This is why TH and PHA should be eradicated, not just managed.  Not all cattlemen have the facts.

 

[GKE Cattle]

I am afraid we have highjacked "Taylor Rocks" post on what to AI his cow to.  But I am enjoying the comments on here and wish there was a post to continue this discusion on.  I will age myself alittle and say that the TH PHA issues are not the first genetic defects I have delt with in my livestock carrer.  Dwarfs in the 60s  Mulefoot in the 70's  Spiders in sheep in the 80's and the list goes on.  I have in the past and will again suggest you read "Battle of Bull Runt"  it gives a great insite into genetic defects and how they can stay hidden and then all of a sudden rise up.  (And if nothing else it is a pretty good history on the early Hereford breed!)  We are luck today that we have DNA testing that is fast and accurate,,  BAck in the dark ages of genetic testing, we had to use 35 or 36 (can't remeber for sure) KNOWN carrier cows, and breed them to the bull you wanted to test.  This was a long drawn out affair,,but here is my point,, one bull we did, did  not have an affected calf till the last cow!!  And there was still a 50/50 chance that calf might have not been affected and we would have been a promoting carrier bull as clean.  He was still a carrier and it could have just as easily been the first calf of the test as the last.    That would have saved a lot of money!!    But it is all random as far as how the DNA lines up,,,as one poster said he could breed 10 cows to the 57th and get 10 clean calves  or 10 carrier calves,,remember cattle breeding is kind of like going to Vegas there are odds to everything you do