"Fluffy Cows" Reddit AMA

[RyanChandler]

Put your money where your mouth is. What you simpletons didn't take into account was the COST OF GAIN.  I can feed and have fed steins that graded low choice.  What I wouldn't want to disclose was how much $ it cost to get them there.

I just think its funny that the uneducated general public-that so many have expressed their contempt for, as well as generations of cattlemen, both hold these scaled-down clubby calves in the same regard- as furry little pets.

 

[Duncraggan]

Put your money where your mouth is. What you simpletons didn't take into account was the COST OF GAIN.  I can feed and have fed steins that graded low choice.  What I wouldn't want to disclose was how much $ it cost to get them there.

I just think its funny that the uneducated general public-that so many have expressed their contempt for, as well as generations of cattlemen, both hold these scaled-down clubby calves in the same regard- as furry little pets.

Well said there XBAR!

Unless the show steer prize money is ridiculously high, this will always remain a hobby, that is, it will cost time and money in the name of fun and entertainment!

I must say it beats the hell out of having your children sitting in front of computers and/or televisions!

 

[vc]

Carnac steer with ADG of 4 pounds a day since February, on 22pounds of grain, 2 pounds of SRB and Bermuda hay. A February 2012 steer that will finish this month at around 1380. I do not think a feeder would be upset with a 6/1 ratio. First picture 10/16/12, second 2/1613, he weighs 950 in the last picture.

 

[chambero]

Unfortunately I cant get as detailed of data from the feedlot program we sell to now, or I would be updating that info each year.

However Ryan - what he was referring to was commercial feedlot data on our calves - many of whom were from Heat Wave or other club calf bloodlines.  We sold to a high end, source verified program up in Nebraska.

We now sell those same kinds of calves to a natural beef program based out of southern Ok.  The only calves we raise that ever see a sale barn are late ones that dont fit the group.

Any claims that "commercial cattleman" reject cattle from club calf bloodlines is just flat wrong and shows a lack of knowledge for how things really work and just how big the demand is for good black cattle.

We ship another 150 hd of our worthless commercial calves out of club calf and Angus bloodlines at the end of the month - sight unseeen by the buyer for the third year in a row.

 

[RyanChandler]

Obviously cattle that finish at 1400lbs aren't the type I was talking about. Neither is it the type this topic is about. 

 

[Telos]

Why do commercial cow/calf operations stay away from bulls that are club calf genetics? I think some of us look at these clubby sires with blinders on. Most of these genetics are too stout and come with other problems of being extremely inconsistent for commercial folks. It is easy to pick isolated calves to show how they perform but what about their contemporary mates. IMO, these genetics usually come with problems and are limited to the show ring. This industry is not only about yield and how big the ribeye area is. It's a lot more complex then that.

 

[chambero]

Dont think the commercial industry has all the right answers on breeding cattle.  The relentless pursuit of high weaning weights has resulted in many cowherds whose females are just too big.

Our calves out of club calf bulls and solid Angus-based cows frankly finish at an ideal size for todays feed prices and grade/yield very well.  Very few animals from show steer bloodlines finish at 1400 lbs+.  These cattle just arent that big.

 

[knabe]

I just think its funny that the uneducated general public-that so many have expressed their contempt for, as well as generations of cattlemen, both hold these scaled-down clubby calves in the same regard- as furry little pets.

i think it's funny that you have contempt for the general public.

funny how it's easy to recognize our own worst faults in others.

 

[knabe]

Obviously cattle that finish at 1400lbs aren't the type I was talking about. Neither is it the type this topic is about.

will your kill sheet include your bottom end?

 

[RyanChandler]

Very few animals from show steer bloodlines finish at 1400 lbs+.  These cattle just arent that big.

That's the problem.  You'd be lucky if -again, the bulls the op is talking about- they matured at 1400. 

 

[frostback]

Very few animals from show steer bloodlines finish at 1400 lbs+.  These cattle just arent that big.

That's the problem.  You'd be lucky if -again, the bulls the op is talking about- they matured at 1400.

In one post you don't want steers at 1400 then in the same thread you want them there. You have a dislike for clubby calves but really don't know why. Not much credibility there. Why not just ignore the posts that talk about clubby stuff and do your thing instead of calling the people who do like and use them names.

 

[RyanChandler]

Show me where I expressed dislike for 1400lb steers. You can't do it. Now your just making things up in a feeble attempt to contribute to the topic.  I only commented in response to those slandering the general publics remarks.  While you still refuse to admit it, the public hit the nail on the head.  Just wait till things surface like you folks purposefully selecting for animals that carry lethal genetic defects because they're 'pretty.'

 

[shortyjock89]

The same type of thing has surfaced in the horse and show dog industries. There are entire categories of dogs with structure issues because they were selected so hard for the show ring. I think the fluffy cow thing is ridiculous. I like looking at club calves sometimes, but they really don't hold any real value as cattle to me. They're Vipers and Corvettes. Cool, but not everyone wants one.

Also, just saying. Mature weight of 1400lbs and slaughter weight of the same are two very very different things.

 

[vc]

X-bar Explain how a steer can pass on a lethal genetic defect, they only way it might be lethal is if you breed a carrier to a carrier, so there is only the potential to be lethal if not managed properly. 

As far as cherry picking certain cattle
here is the list (Fair is first of July) We show by color and weight

2003 Commercial Angus, Feb steer 1327. choice
2004 Shorthorn, Late Feb early March Steer 1248. Choice
        Commercial Angus, March steer, 1360, Choice
2005 Full Flush,  Feb steer, 1337. USDA Prime (only steer to go to the state plant) Class winner
        Northern Improvement/Main-Angus, March Steer 1270, High Choice
2006 Shorthorn, Feb steer, 1265, low choice
        RSVP, Feb steer, 1351, choice
2007 Paddy O'mally Early March 1342, Choice, Class winner 3rd over all 4H
2008 Heatwave, Feb Steer, 1380, prime, Class winner 4th over all 4H
        Friction, Feb Steer, 1341, Choice, Class winner 3rd over all 4H
2009 Invincible Feb Steer, 1414 (1327 class)  Choice, Champion 4H
2010 Unforgiven, Feb Steer 1420 (1335 Class) Class winner 3rd over all 4H At one point he was gaining 4.5 pounds a day, we had to put the breaks on him for awhile.
        HeatWave, March steer, 1295, Reserve Grand, 4H champion
2011 Unforgiven Feb steer, 1480, 1390 class, Choice, Kid did not hold him when he needed to
2012 DR Who son 1391, Class winner 3rd over all black, First calf heifer.
2013 Carnac, Feb Projected weight 1380, we will see.

Out of all of those calves 2 were hard feeders and still gained 3 or more pounds a day. We never fed more than 24 pounds of grain a day. All most every calf has gone to the same processor and all he ever does is comment on the consistency of the carcasses, and how they grade out.
I will say we selected steers for fats and not prospects. We can get the same beef with either Club or Commercial, we can only stand in the middle of the class with the commercial calves, and win with the Club.

 

[Duncraggan]

I just think its funny that the uneducated general public-that so many have expressed their contempt for, as well as generations of cattlemen, both hold these scaled-down clubby calves in the same regard- as furry little pets.

i think it's funny that you have contempt for the general public.

funny how it's easy to recognize our own worst faults in others.

With all due respect knabe, this quote you have attributed to me is in fact what I quoted from a previous post by someone else.  That said, I must agree with the sentiments!

 

[RyanChandler]

X-bar Explain how a steer can pass on a lethal genetic defect, they only way it might be lethal is if you breed a carrier to a carrier, so there is only the potential to be lethal if not managed properly. 

As far as cherry picking certain cattle
here is the list (Fair is first of July) We show by color and weight

2003 Commercial Angus, Feb steer 1327. choice
2004 Shorthorn, Late Feb early March Steer 1248. Choice
        Commercial Angus, March steer, 1360, Choice
2005 Full Flush,  Feb steer, 1337. USDA Prime (only steer to go to the state plant) Class winner
        Northern Improvement/Main-Angus, March Steer 1270, High Choice
2006 Shorthorn, Feb steer, 1265, low choice
        RSVP, Feb steer, 1351, choice
2007 Paddy O'mally Early March 1342, Choice, Class winner 3rd over all 4H
2008 Heatwave, Feb Steer, 1380, prime, Class winner 4th over all 4H
        Friction, Feb Steer, 1341, Choice, Class winner 3rd over all 4H
2009 Invincible Feb Steer, 1414 (1327 class)  Choice, Champion 4H
2010 Unforgiven, Feb Steer 1420 (1335 Class) Class winner 3rd over all 4H At one point he was gaining 4.5 pounds a day, we had to put the breaks on him for awhile.
        HeatWave, March steer, 1295, Reserve Grand, 4H champion
2011 Unforgiven Feb steer, 1480, 1390 class, Choice, Kid did not hold him when he needed to
2012 DR Who son 1391, Class winner 3rd over all black, First calf heifer.
2013 Carnac, Feb Projected weight 1380, we will see.

Out of all of those calves 2 were hard feeders and still gained 3 or more pounds a day. We never fed more than 24 pounds of grain a day. All most every calf has gone to the same processor and all he ever does is comment on the consistency of the carcasses, and how they grade out.
I will say we selected steers for fats and not prospects. We can get the same beef with either Club or Commercial, we can only stand in the middle of the class with the commercial calves, and win with the Club.

of course you can get the same beef. They're both bovines.  Just like I can feed steins to finish at 1200lbs and grade choice.  What continues to be overlooked and left out are the two most important variables: days on feed (which for most of those is their entire life) and cost of gain. 

And again, many of the clubby bulls are less than 1500lbs as mature GROWN bulls.  Calves out of bulls like those aren't grading choice at 1400lbs. 

 

[vc]

Let me get this strait, commercial calves do not go on grain at feed lots for most of their lives, but show calves are on feed for most all of their lives? I though they fed grain to calves in the feed lots. I wounder what those feed lot calves ADG would be if they were hauled all over the country every other weekend?

Let me add "Quality of beef" instead of beef. Some of the heaviest calves we had where out of the Heatwave blood lines. I think the cow and herd management plays just as big a part in the scenario as the type of bull. Is how a club calf is fed any different than the way some seed stock producers feed their bulls prior to sale or when their on test?

The quality of calves is not the issue, CE and BW are. Running 500 cows all bred to HeatWave might keep you up at night, but a pen full of 500 HeatWave calves out of Simi-Angus cows would probably look pretty awesome.

I have sorted through enough commercial Angus calves to tell you they are not all uniform, unless you go by color alone, the trick is to have enough of each type to have uniform lots. I'm sure you could do the same with the heatwave calves as well.

As far as the general public knowledge or lack there of, that is where I think the county fair comes in: most of the visitours to our fair are not from the country, display boards, and the kids answering their questions may be the only information they ever get about the meat they eat. Most display board material comes from breed associations and meat boards (Not showstock driven) and the information the kids pass on comes from what they learn in class or group meetings, the bulk of that is industry driven material. Just happens the calves they see at the fair are a little prettier than the ones they get their ground round from.

 

[RyanChandler]

Let me get this strait, commercial calves do not go on grain at feed lots for most of their lives, but show calves are on feed for most all of their lives? I though they fed grain to calves in the feed lots. I wounder what those feed lot calves ADG would be if they were hauled all over the country every other weekend?

That's correct. Most - as in the majority- of commercial calves are only on feed for the last quarter of their life; they're on their mothers and then back grounded generally on annuals prior. 

Again, intervention is mistakin for genetic superiority.  That's should be SPs new theme.

 

[Quick fire]

I would love to see those skinny shorthorns you raise out perform other calves, let alone show cattle...

 

[chambero]

Ryan:

What makes you think that most "clubby bulls" are less than 1500 lbs when mature.  My reference to them being "not that big" is a frame size reference - not weight.  Honest question - have you seen in person any mature clubby bulls in their home pastures or even at study.  I'm guessing not because there aren't that many living in our part of the world.

Take a trip up to Kris Black's sometime to see his mature bulls.  There are probably exceptions and neither I nor their owners run around weighing them, but I'd venture most are closer to 2,000 lbs than they are 1500 lbs.  The only time any of mine are ever weighed is when they are old and broken down and taken to the sale barn, but they've all been that heavy or heavier even when on their last legs.

Photos are misleading.  I can't even begin to accurately judge size off a photo.