Flushing Question

[Silver]

I was thinking what would happen if I got a contract with a dairy to use their Holstein cows to birth flushed embryos from a Simmental  cow that were sired by a clubby bull. Would their be any problems with the Holsteins birthing them or carrying them? I was just thinking that most dairy operations don't want calves anyway so what if i put a good calf in them and then used a couple of old dairy cows to feed the calves at my place; like two or three calves to a cow depending on how much milk she is giving. They would get plenty of creep feed too. So I was wondering if anyone could see some holes in that plan that might screw everything up.

 

[Show Heifer]

Since many (I am not sure if I am one of them or not) think cow size dictates calf size, I would think you would get HUGE calves. Are you raising strictly club steers? Although I realize many breeds do not require bw on embryo calves, I would think they would scare away people buying bulls or replacement females.  I am assuming you are thinking the calves are going to be big anyway, so putting them in holsteins that are going to be a high plain of nutrition, may not be the best idea. I would also question how much work it would be to get the "old holsteins" to take a calf or two. (I have never grafted anything to a holstein... actually only grafted one calf in my entire life, so can't speak from experience here!)
But, since many on here have NEVER had any trouble with recep cows having calves, heck, it might be a good idea.

Good luck.

 

[Dyer Show cattle]

I would say it might be worth a shot, maybe start small with 2-4 calves and see how it works. holsteins should be able to calve about anything. But getting a cow to claim one calf is a job in itself, getting them to claim 3 calves all at the same time is where I think your going to have the troubles. But it seems milk cows seem not to mind as much. I know many people use jerseys and will put 3 calves on them with no troubles. I don't know about holstiens though. The only thing is with dairy guys the reason they don't want the calf is they want the milk from the cow so as long as you can get a few for nurse cows you would be set. Just make sure those calves have plenty of milk I would prob only put 2 calves on 1 cow depending on how they milk. You can have 2 awsome calves both look like crap in a month or 2 if they are fighting eachother for milk and there is no turning it back around. Guess I would rather stay on the safe side and have too much than not enough.

 

[Show Heifer]

Another thought: Make sure the dairy herd is Johne's free. Many (maybe most) have johne disease and that isn't something you want to bring into your beef herd

 

[BadgerFan]

you'd need to make sure you get colostrum in them.  Lack of colostrum is a serious problem in Holstein bull calves (byproducts).  As long as you'd be willing to pay enough premium to keep your calves from being considered "byproducts" then you might be ok. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Show Heifer beat me to the point about Johne's.

 

[Silver]

I don't plan on getting the cow to take to the calves i just put her into a head catch that has to two rails on each side and let them eat when she is in there. I don't have to make her like them. There is a small dairy that is johnes disease free (I already checked). He said he would let me use his cows as recipients for free because his cows keep milking and he doesn't have to deal with calves. So as far as I can see this might just work, thanks for reminding me about birth weight though. That could be a little problem I guess I'll see how it works.

 

[Dyer Show cattle]

The only problem I see with catching the cow the calves are still going to be limited on milk. Yes they will get plenty at once but not as much as they want when they want it. So More or less they will be like bottle calves getting fed a couple times a day. The cow will have plenty of milk but if your going to the trouble and spending the money on embryos I just dont see the gain. If the calves cant eat when they want I would imagine they will be just like bottle calves and every year that we have had a bottle calf you can almost pick him out as one of the poorer calves in the group and we feed them well. Mine just don't gain like the calves on the cows and put the muscle on from following the cows around all day. Now I think that if you used the cows like recips and put the calves on the cows I think the calves could might turn out to be something. I just dont see having any kind of show stopper with a nurse/bottle calf. Its tough enough having a show stopper out of a normal situation.

 

[Silver]

Ok that's probably true about the whole bottle calf thing, maybe I will get some cows to take the calves. Besides, the ranch  always has a couple of cows that lose their calves and I'll get to use them for free so that might not  be all bad. My brother is a mastermind at grafting calves so I'll enlist his help. He will even go as far as skinning the dead calf and tying the hide onto the graft calf for the first few days. That really works as long as its not to cold.

 

[Dyer Show cattle]

It takes some time putting a calf of the cow but I know many dairy cows will take about any calf and dont care at all, some I know will take 3 at a time and not fight one bit. With a little time and work I think it could pay off though and you will end up with much better results with putting the calves on the cows.

 

[shortyjock89]

I really don't think that diary cow recips work out all that well, but I guess to each his own. If it worked great, I think more people would be trying to do it.

 

[BCCC]

I don't think a Holstein milks as much as most of us think when outside of the dairy. In the dairy they are fed tons of feeds to make high amounts of milk, but being out on grass I don' think they would make nearly as much(still more than a beef cow) Used to have small herd of 30 milking shorthorns, and they wouldn't milk outrageously unless fed that way.

 

[kanshow]

I think that's right..  the cow is only going to milk as good as the feed supply & quality allows.   

I personally would not invest the money of an embryo & transfer KNOWING that I'm going to end up with a bucket calf.  JMO.. but I'd say no, it would be my last choice. 

 

[Silver]

Well I might just try it because my brother can do embryo transfers so it wouldn't cost me all that much. I guess I'll just have to try it. I think as long as I get them fed good enough it might just work.

 

[Show Heifer]

It seems you have the perfect answer to everyones concern (which seems to me to be leaning toward the "bad idea" side) so you must have the perfect situation. Why did you ask?

 

[justintime]

I would suggest that if you are going to bucket feed the resulting calves from this, you are going to find that you have wasted the money you invested in collecting the embryos. Bucket calves are always going to be behind calves that have been raised by a mother. The ET center I use, used dairy cows in the early years of ET, because they were easy to find, and cheaper than beef cows. They refuse to even put embryos into a dairy cow now, even if the cow is going to raise the calf. They just say they are not worth the trouble, and usually end up in some kind of bad story. I have used Hereford X Holstein heifers and they have worked great. Perfect amount of milk, reasonably priced and saleable when the calf is weaned. I wish you luck if you decide to proceed with this venture and I hope you will keep us informed how it works for you.

 

[Silver]

I'll see what I can do, but I'm not going to invest a ton of money. My new plan is to have my brother flush one of the ranches Angus cows and try 2 recipient Holsteins cows. So I will have to pay for some cheap semen and an old nurse cow, everything else should be free. I hope this works. Thanks for all the ideas and precautions.