Flushing ?

[Carlson Cattle]

I understand now. Thats why its not a bad idea to put 3 straws in expessily if the semen is cheap

 

[Carlson Cattle]

so you pritty much put 3 straws of the same semen in to make sure all the eggs get fertalised. then you flush every 7 days after that or what? 7 days seems quite ofton. dont you have to have them come into heat or not.....

 

[leanbeef]

so you pritty much put 3 straws of the same semen in to make sure all the eggs get fertalised. then you flush every 7 days after that or what? 7 days seems quite ofton. dont you have to have them come into heat or not.....

No...that's one flush...you superovulate the donor, then you breed her, then you flush her. If you want to flush her again, you start all over again.

A lot of people flush a donor once or twice and then breed her and let her have a natural calf. Then you might flush her again the next year. Some cows are basically primarily donor cows, and they may be flushed several times before they ever get bred to carry a natural calf. Typically, you would eventually want the give her system a rest and let her raise a natural calf.

 

[Carlson Cattle]

i see what you are saying so you ai then in 7 days you flush then your done. Then you start over and ai then flush in 7 days. What are the shots you have to give like how many are there? like how fast can you turn around and ai agin after you flush??

 

[leanbeef]

i see what you are saying so you ai then in 7 days you flush then your done. Then you start over and ai then flush in 7 days. What are the shots you have to give like how many are there? like how fast can you turn around and ai agin after you flush??

You would work with an embryologist or somebody who is trained and certified to do that mind of work, and they give you the drugs and the protocol. We're flushing two cows this month, and they got CIDRs yesterday. They get a shot of Cystorelin when the CIDR goes in, then a shot of Lutalyse when it comes out. The shots they'll get during that period are FSH...follicle stimulating hormone. And that's what makes her produce more than one egg to be fertilized.

There's an art and a science to the process, and not every cow responds the same way to the same protocol. A good embryologist is important! You can mess a cow up for a long time or even ruin one if you're not sure about what you're doing.

As far as how often, that's something you'd need to work with your embryologist on, too. We just flush one time and then breed the donor so we can try to keep her calving with the rest of the herd. Not especially easy when you have a pretty tight calving season...

 

[Carlson Cattle]

i want to have eggs by may because i have 16 recips and they are having calves in april and then i will put the eggs in in may. When should i start flushing? because i want to have at least 16 eggs by may when it comes time to put them in the recips......

 

[obie105]

To have calves in april and put eggs in by may is a pretty tight window even if you were doing ai work. You also have to set up all the recip cows. I would really sit down with the embryologist and come up with a plan. There is also quite a bit of expense involved in all of this. Also there is a much lower conception rate with implanting embryos than ai work. There is also the option to buy embryos from proven programs. Many of times they will guarantee a pregnancy that way.

 

[leanbeef]

Right...I agree. Unless you're talking about the recips calving in early April and trying to put embryos in in late May, that's pretty tight. You'll be lucky to get the recips cycling that quickly.

You could buy embryos, and I might recommend that to get you started. It's a lot less complicated than flushing your own cow, and you could get a guarantee of about 50% going that route. Flushing your own cow is a huge gamble...she might make you 16 or 26 or 0!

If you're set on flushing one of your own cows, you need to decide on whether you want to put in fresh eggs or freeze em and out them in later. You really do need a good embryologist on your team to help make it successful. That person will talk you through your questions and set up a schedule that lays it all out.

 

[crown33]

You have to think about a few things also. Is your cow good enough to even flush? Has she been proven? What are you going to do if you get no eggs from her? Also do you have a market for these calves if you get a bunch of these calves? This is going to cost you a good amount of money to do, you want to make sure that you have stuff figured out.

 

[Carlson Cattle]

the recips are calving in April. If i dont get any eggs the recips will be bred by the bull again. I want to start now so i will have eggs in the tank when the recips are ready

 

[Limiman12]

For never having dealt with this, 16 is pretty optimistic......  20 or so years ago, we flushed a cow, had ten cows cycling in her cycle to put in fresh.....  Got two eggs, neither stuck, so we had ten recips and the donor all set back a month and no calves to show for it.    The only reason we are flushing this year is we had a ton of open cows last spring and had to replace about half our herd with sale barn cows.  Most are good mamas but nothing special to look at.    We also have a purebred cow that we don't LOVE but we like her a lot better then the cows we are gonna use for recips and want to get our herd back to OUR herd, not sale barn cows, this will help us speed the process up......

 

[Carlson Cattle]

okay sounds good

 

[obie105]

If you dont get any embryos and having 16 cows set up thats alot of money down the drain too. All of those cows will need to be cidr and ready too. Also you need to pry wait 60 days post calving or have your donor have a natural heat before flushing so if she just calved you have to wait on her system to reset and get ready. Flushing takes time and money it is not something to rush into at all. You also need to have a marketing plan for your calves.

 

[Carlson Cattle]

how long will i need for her body to reset. and i want to start flushing as soon as she resets. so i dont run into the problom not having enough eggs

 

[obie105]

When did she calve? Plan on 60 days but it could be 30 my embryo tech likes them to have a natural heat before setting up. If you want embryos to put in when your donor is ready you will only get one flush because between flushes there body has to wait also. The soonest I have heard is 60I days between flushes or thats the soonest ours will do.

 

[Carlson Cattle]

she calved on Febuary 21. So when i flush i have to wait 60 days. so the chances are i will only get one flush.....

 

[obie105]

The other thing to think about is how much do you want to spend on this? Its not cheap. Our guy will put them in for $60 an embryo plus your recips will need cidrs and drugs. Your donor needs drugs and cidrs plus the semen then our embryo tech charges $100 per embryo flushed. Just giving you an idea on costs.  

Yes more than likely you will only get one flush. They are not machines. Even to get one ready to flush takes a couple of weeks.

 

[Carlson Cattle]

so can i start now? can i start preping her? and i am using walks alone i think he is still at 25$ a unit so that wont be much there. yes we usally spend about 3 grand breeding every year so it wont be a problom.

 

[obie105]

No they cant be prepped until they have a natural heat. If you dont have experience with this I would definently look at an embryo transfer center there are several in Iowa that will house and take care of your donor. They do all of the shots and breeding. Timing is critical. Then the day of the flush you need to have the recips ready if you want to implant fresh. When we do flush work I take mine in to a center. They take excellent care of them

 

[crown33]

Didn't you say you only had 5 cows to start with that had to calve this year? Spending 3 grand on that low number of cows seems like a lot