From bad to worse

[DL]

CAB - gentamicin is not off the market - it is used in a wide variety of NON FOOD animals (and humans, although newer aminoglycoside antibiotics have replaced it in many instances) but residues can be found in cattle 18 months after a single treatment - hence the admonition not to use it in food animals and the 18 month slaughter withdrawal

The general recommendation in treating scours is not to take them off the cow - they will not receive sufficient energy on electrolytes alone and most calves that are still up and running will not be accepting of the bottle - a calf that is flat out (critical) is a different story

re antitoxin - this is an antibody which can neutralize a toxin (in this case produced by the clostridial bacteria); the vaccine stimulates the production of antibodies against the specific bacteria - they can be given simultaneously

 

[lucysmom]

Isn't it great that there is a forum for this kind of discussion?  I love it.  An update - I think we've turned a corner. No evidence of scours today,
butt is cleaner, and he's sucking down water and hay and momma"s bag is nearly empty so he evidently is feeling better. He's nursed well all along
but looks like he's been a real piggie today. Acts a bit more energetic as well.
I really did consider pulling him off mom even though it's mean.  From what I can gather about clostridium, it feeds on the protein and starches
in the gut. Therefore, it makes sense to me that if you remove its food source it cannot flourish as well. Luckily we did not have to go there.  We'll
have another culture done to check, but I'm cautiously hopeful that we're recovering.
The momma did have her vaccs, we do annual vacs ( all the vet offers) and prior to calving we hit her with the scour guards.  We just hadn't
vacced the calf - were scheduling that at 3 months.  We'll be doing at birth from now on.  I figrued out also that the Baytril was to gaurd
against a respiratory illness, which is evidently a common secondary infection. Hate for him to have gone through this but will be so much
more prepared the next time.  He hasn't shown much interest in the minerals yet which surprises me but as long as he's improvng I'm
not going to stress about that. He'll go after them when he needs them I guess. 
It sure was nice to talk to some folks that have been through this and had all the great suggestions and information. Those of you with sick
babies, I sure feel your pain.  And we ony have one!

 

[Jill]

Using the scour guard before calving in the right time frame should be the only protection you need, we have never had one get scours that mom had the scour guard in the correct time frame, if it wasn't done in the correct window that's a different deal, you shouldn't have to redo the calf at birth, they should be protected from mom.

 

[DL]

Using the scour guard before calving in the right time frame should be the only protection you need, we have never had one get scours that mom had the scour guard in the correct time frame, if it wasn't done in the correct window that's a different deal, you shouldn't have to redo the calf at birth, they should be protected from mom.

I am talking about vaccinating for clostri8dial diseases at birth - Scourgard when given in the correct time frame protects against  Rotavirus serotypes G6 and G10, E. coli, Coronavirus, and  Clostridium perfringens Type C but not the other clostridial diseases

The notion that pulling the calf off milk because the bacteria thrive on the protein is antiquated and flawed but still persists - removing the food source from the bacteria also removes the food source from the calf which makes it more difficult for him to fight off the infection

FYI Baytril is not approved for use for metaphalyxis (ie prevention of pneumonia in susceptible cattle) it is only approved for use in treatment of pneumonia - http://www.bayerdvm.com/products/baytril/baytril100Cattle.cfm and basically the common secondary infection to viral diarrhea is bacterial diarrhea - pneumonia is not considered a secondary infection to diarrhea

glad your calf is better - sounds like he turned the corner

 

[lucysmom]

Thanks DL, it seems he has.  Not completely well yet but on his way. I appreciate you taking the time to research and point out things we need to know. Believe
me I know we will never be experts but if we're going to raise a few calves we better know all we can.  You make a lot of sense and back it up. Heck, all of you on
here have way more knowledge than we do I'm thinking. Sorry I just got back to post, had a lot going yesterday.