Full Blood Maine Weekly Update

[mark tenenbaum]

I cant erace the second post which is basically the pedigree etc over again.I didnt think the first one 'stuck'. Im not positive what is or is not a full blood. I'm more concerned about how some of these bulls worked in the past on Shorthorns . There were enough Flashes (even I had a couple) and Rocker Bros. performance cattle out of Fireman that I saw. Based upon their everyday use- that made them somewhat proven. Ones like General Lee have been suggested by Mark Mueller-I THINK he knows a little about Maines and usage on Shorthorns way back when his friends at Deertrail started using Maines. Another bull I like is Red Knight-based upon descendents at Shirelys in Western Ks and the multitudes of Steermakers Ive seen. The soundest most correct one I have ever been involved with was UB Junior Walker. He was sired by Double Down who was an absolute cripple so i'm told. Jr Walker passed that walk on to every calf we ever had out of him.

 

[knabe]

Flash (doc-sun's flash) is nowhere near as extreme as twin creek etulason or crippled like power plant.

There’s only one reason to have etulason that close in a pedigree and even that is debatable.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Flash (doc-sun's flash) is nowhere near as extreme as twin creek etulason or crippled like power plant.

There’s only one reason to have etulason that close in a pedigree and even that is debatable.

Harold Hoskins and Ed Grathwohl had a bull Vistas Sentra 20 U that he called Flash. He was calf champion at Denver in 1987 or something. Thats the one Im talking about. The Fireman bull wasnt crippled at all. And he produced some good long lived cows at: Rockers, Greenridge J and H and a few other places.

 

[knabe]

Sadly, you won’t use doc-sun’s bull slash.

If you listened to yourself, you would. The pedigree on that bull is typey for what vista’s Sentra and that cattle family were doing.

Prob take too much investigation to prove it too you.

Just like back then, and now, you would need 20-30 calves (of anything) to sort off 2-3 you would want to keep.

Repeat and stick with an idea and the background of the type, and you would have something.

But we both know that $50 a unit is prob too steep.

Better to use the $5 stuff.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

1-The bull I would use would be Yukon 2-There is no such thing as $5 semen 3-We dont have 20 -30 cows we have 5 -4- Vistas Sentra is too big and too snakey for me. 5- Shorthorns do not breed like other cattle AT ALL. I try to use ones that I know have worked on shorthorns -And based upon visible evaluations by people I know. I dont want black ones. Hardings Capital Gaines produced two train wrecks for example. 6- There are pockets of semen on bulls like Red Knight , (or a son I know of) General Lee and others around that have produced the kind of calves I want.

 

[knabe]

wasn't stinger $7

 

[mark tenenbaum]

wasn't stinger $7

$50.00

 

[mark tenenbaum]

$50.00

 

[knabe]

 

[knabe]

click on image and it will take you to the facebook page from australia

 

[knabe]

dam of power plant

 

[mark tenenbaum]

JDS Fireman solid red picture on a LOT of cows that year I dont see any soundness issues at all. With him or the daughters at Rockers

 

[knabe]

The power plant lameness issues are on here from other people and second comments he was extremely lame at stud.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The few pics of him show inflamed hocks.

Maybe he wasn’t quite sound enough to jump so many times or he got injured. Who knows.

Someone does.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I think the spirit of the thread is fullblood Maines, not capital letters (shouting) Sullivan bashing and complaining semen of limited quantity bull isn’t free. Really?

Find a cow you like that makes 15+ eggs with ivf, then it doesn’t matter the cost of semen as you only use one unit. AS IF

Most people aren’t going to sell you limited fullblood semen to use on a non-fullblood. Yes saw that in caps-RE what an honor it must be etc-Glad he got to meet me.

I guess you are not really interested in fullbloods anyway . Probably Right I am going to use what I have seen work on the kind of cattle I have Some of them are registered with the MA Assoc, Really all I need to know.

The power plant lameness issues are on here from other people and second comments he was extremely lame at stud.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The few pics of him show inflamed hocks.

Maybe he wasn’t quite sound enough to jump so many times or he got injured. Who knows.

Someone does. There have been tons of unsound cattle of all breeds especially Maines . BCC Double down was the most crippled clubby possibly of all time But there were sons and daughters that were the most correct and they passed it along I have some of them over 25 years later Uninterrupted

 

[knabe]

i think the reason people are going back to some fullbloods, is to go black again without twin creek etulason, cunia, etc., because the fullbloods that were ignored because they weren't tall enough, chi looking that one could create something again. granted it will take 4-5+ generations to mostly start over, instead of looking for the magic bull. it's pretty clear what bulls people like to use. what would be different would be the cow base that one would create. maybe most people won't do it, no biggie. the maine data base is too clogged with cunia and needs an outcross, and yes, the breed is bottlenecked, but compared to most old breeds, plenty of diverse sement is available besides cunia, etula, inox, epinal that are decent.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Too bad they arent immediately available to the average person with another breed of cattle.Id way rather look at heritage maines (especially Coca Cola or General lee versus "heritage dairy cattle like Ayatollah, and the rest.

 

[knabe]

The best thing to do with old fullblood semen is use it on parentage verified fullbloods.

Then collect bulls, then use on cows like you want.

Anything else, is a waste.

 

[knabe]

I’ll bet there is less than 50 horned parentage verified fullbloods in the Canadian association without polling in their background.

These types of animals almost no longer exist in American association.

 

[knabe]

Polling has a couple bad effects.

Weaker hips/rear end, tubular structure and relaxed prepuce.

Polled herefords went through this.

 

[knabe]

hence, cows like this, and flush to old horned bulls. rinse repeat with offspring, then polled polled bulls, submit dna to 150k test and offset cunia in the data base for diversity of markers and association with traits like source of dystocia, carcass traits, performance traits. epds not necessary if contemporary groups big enough and multiple full sibs from different sires in the group

cow is direct dabla over caqui and was herself an embryo from the 80's.