Getting destroyed at market w/ red and white, black w/white legs

[SHAGGY]

Anything that isn't solid black around here gets really hit hard, we can disagree all we want but at the end of the day its what the customer wants not what you think they should have. '

 

[blackcows]

the only way to solve this would be to have a market like the hog market where they pay you based carcass performance rather than on foot. But i dont see the beef industry going to that anytime soon.

The beef industry has already gone that way, most fat cattle are sold on the grid.

 

[farwest]

I sent a 4 weight heifer to the barn last fall with white legs clear up to the flank.  Check came for 31 bucks,  total.  I believed it, but was irate and callled the gal who owned the sale barn and asked why she would let it happen.  they discovered it was a clerk error and was actually 300 and some.  But still.  Don't send one with socks, paint, or that's clipped.  You'll get murdered.  Saying that, i've eaten past 4-h calves and i don't really care to eat a straight angus any more.  Too much intermuscular fat.  We don't need it to still be tender.  I've ate chi crosses that are just as tender without the fat inside and have a thinnner layer of backfat.  I don't know who's eating all these straight angus calves, but it's hard for me to believe a health driven america is gobbling them up if they know what's really what.

 

[HAFarm]

I will preface my comments by saying I am an Angus breeder.

You know what they say "Once you go black....."

I don't agree with the previous statement about IMF, you can't have too much...see Kobe beef.  How much do you have to pay for a pound of that stuff? In my mind and most consumers minds no marbling equals shoe leather. Why are steaks the most valuable cuts?  They are the most marbled.  If a consumer has to be concerned with how to cook a steak other than throw it on the grill they will not continue to buy our product.  Most people don't have the knowledge or ability to cook unmarbled beef and make it taste good and be tender.   

We all basically get paid for IMF if we sell feeders or replacements. By buying a strong Angus influenced animal a buyer is lowering their risk of getting an animal that is not well marbled.  Not eliminating just lowering.   

I have stated this before on this site, the American Angus Association has done a far superior job of getting consumers to know the value of Angus over the other breeds.  "You can't fit an elephant in a box."     

 

[farwest]

Something i picked from the previous poster is "angus influenced cattle".  I agree, some angus influence is great.   I was talking pure angus i've eaten.  Something else to note i'm talking about a total beef processed locally, not a steak bought out of the cooler at the local meat cutter.  There's been so  much fat that can't be sorted  it's impossible to have a half lean burger at all .  Some roasts theres not alot left when you get through the fat.  I've eaten two in a row that are pure angus.   Now, about the shoe leather, some products without the excessive marbling maybe are tougher due to lack of aging time by packers today,  what 3 or 4 days tops.  The last beef i had processed at local plant hung for 18 days, that can turn a select product into something alot better than if it only had 3 days aging..  I'm not trying to hammer the angus breeders, i run angus bulls on some cross cows.  I believe all that fine marbled beef goes overseas or to expensive restaurants or higher dollar grocery stores , eaten by occasional beef diners.  I wouldn't want it everyday.   Moderation in everything i guess.  Sorry, didn't mean to turn this post into an angus/crossbred debate.  Just trying to stand up for some crossed up calves at the sale barn, and me being a beef eater usually two times a day figuring out how to live a little longer without having the big one.  heh heh...

 

[qbcattle]

the only way to solve this would be to have a market like the hog market where they pay you based carcass performance rather than on foot. But i dont see the beef industry going to that anytime soon.

The beef industry has already gone that way, most fat cattle are sold on the grid.

at the end but it has not worked its way down to the actual rancher at the sale barn.

 

[blackcows]

the only way to solve this would be to have a market like the hog market where they pay you based carcass performance rather than on foot. But i dont see the beef industry going to that anytime soon.

The beef industry has already gone that way, most fat cattle are sold on the grid.

at the end but it has not worked its way down to the actual rancher at the sale barn.

So what is the difference between that and the hog market?  The only person in the hog industry that is paid on the carcass is the person that sells the fat hog.

 

[Steered]

I would guess that more hog farms sell directly to the packerthan cattle farms and can reap the benefits of selling on a carcass basis.  Around here there is basically no cattlemen that sell directly to the packer.  Most are sold at the local sale barn after weaning and that is the difference.  If you have enough calves, know the genetics good enough that you know how to market them (either on a "grade grid" or a "yield grid") and enough available feed then retaining ownership is the way to go.  That way color will not enter the picture except that you may or may not qualify for some branded beef programs.  I think that the original post had to do with selling calves at the sale barn and getting hit.

Now having said all that, here is a story for you.  My son had 3 steers for the county fair his senior year.  He was not able to show any of them as he had to report to college 2 days before the beef show at the fair.  We had already planned on butchering one ourselves, and found a buyer for another.  Could not find a buyer for the third steer so took him to the local sale barn as I was tired of feeding him and he was definitely finished.  The steer was a red neck roan shorthorn.  I did not expect to get top dollar for a colored up fat steer at the local sale barn.  When the check came I got  ten cents a pound over the market that day.  Someone at the barn must have had an empty freezer that day!

 

[Jive Turkey]

you will docked at the barn for non-uniformity, paints resemble to most as simmental crosses which r known for spending too many days on feed before slaughter, because of the risks due to inconsistency there are going to be discounts.

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This

 

[JCC]

I think one thing that has been forgotten is that if you are selling feeder cattle that are colored up they automatically DON'T qualify for some of the branded beef programs based on visual appearance. Now I have been on both sides of this deal with red and white cattle that were better than the blacks but brought $20 cwt less at the barn. Upfront we as producers need to be aware of what the market is telling us, and right now ANGUS is the hot button topic with consumers and, they have to be a minimum of 51% black hided to qualify for CAB visually. I am not going to argue the point of fairness of the CAB program but the marketing has been tremendous.
Travis

 

[simtal]

how many people own hogs and raise them to market

how many people own cattle and raise them to market


way fewer hog players than cattle players

 

[Will]

Here is what we do.  Figure out who is the local buyer for the weights of calves you are selling them give him a call.  Remember he knows he can buy colored cattle at a discount so you have to make him want your calves.  Our guy knows we vaccinate and know we have a very good health program.  So he buys our left over colored cattle for 10 cents below market and pays market for the solid colored calves.  We go off of the OKC price for the week.  I deliver the calves to him as he only lives about 10 miles away.  He gets a healthy calf at a bargain I get a good price and if you consider the shrink I would have at the sale barn and the commission I am way ahead.  Most buyers would rather buy from the farm but that would just be to time consuming.

 

[JTM]

I will preface my comments by saying I am an Angus breeder.

You know what they say "Once you go black....."
I don't agree with the previous statement about IMF, you can't have too much...see Kobe beef.  How much do you have to pay for a pound of that stuff? In my mind and most consumers minds no marbling equals shoe leather. Why are steaks the most valuable cuts?  They are the most marbled.  If a consumer has to be concerned with how to cook a steak other than throw it on the grill they will not continue to buy our product.  Most people don't have the knowledge or ability to cook unmarbled beef and make it taste good and be tender.     

We all basically get paid for IMF if we sell feeders or replacements. By buying a strong Angus influenced animal a buyer is lowering their risk of getting an animal that is not well marbled.  Not eliminating just lowering.     

I have stated this before on this site, the American Angus Association has done a far superior job of getting consumers to know the value of Angus over the other breeds.  "You can't fit an elephant in a box."     

I really like this reply and I agree with 90% of it. I think where the problem comes in is the part about buying Angus influence and lowering the risk. I totally agree with this theory and believe it to be true, but the only way that you can assure that there is "strong" angus influence is to be in a program like CAB or Angus Source. Shorthorn have proven that they have as much tenderness and marbling as Angus but they are still getting discounted 20 cents on the dollar compared to any black crossbred calf. This is where the issue is. If you can verify that black equals high influence Angus, then the premiums should be higher, but cattle shouldnt be discounted for something other than black.

 

[Torch]

The market (buyers at the sale barn in this case) are playing the percentages based on the data. If you want to change it (the perception, reality, that angus influenced cattle fit the demand) then put the time and work into collecting the data that says your genetics fit that demand as well.

The days of dropping off cattle at the sale barn and getting top dollar (or equal money) is gone. It just isn't that simple anymore. JMHO

 

[Silver]

I guess you could always find a private buyer and show them what they really are and then you'll get the same. Just get in with a big feedlot and you'll never have trouble selling your calves again, that is if they like how your calves are preforming.

 

[garybob]

I will preface my comments by saying I am an Angus breeder.

You know what they say "Once you go black....."
I don't agree with the previous statement about IMF, you can't have too much...see Kobe beef.  How much do you have to pay for a pound of that stuff? In my mind and most consumers minds no marbling equals shoe leather. Why are steaks the most valuable cuts?  They are the most marbled.  If a consumer has to be concerned with how to cook a steak other than throw it on the grill they will not continue to buy our product.  Most people don't have the knowledge or ability to cook unmarbled beef and make it taste good and be tender.    

We all basically get paid for IMF if we sell feeders or replacements. By buying a strong Angus influenced animal a buyer is lowering their risk of getting an animal that is not well marbled.  Not eliminating just lowering.    

I have stated this before on this site, the American Angus Association has done a far superior job of getting consumers to know the value of Angus over the other breeds.  "You can't fit an elephant in a box."      

I really like this reply and I agree with 90% of it. I think where the problem comes in is the part about buying Angus influence and lowering the risk. I totally agree with this theory and believe it to be true, but the only way that you can assure that there is "strong" angus influence is to be in a program like CAB or Angus Source. Shorthorn have proven that they have as much tenderness and marbling as Angus but they are still getting discounted 20 cents on the dollar compared to any black crossbred calf. This is where the issue is. If you can verify that black equals high influence Angus, then the premiums should be higher, but cattle shouldnt be discounted for something other than black.

Bingo!!! I saw a 575-lb black, HORNED, Limousin calf that was STILL A BULL bring more money per pound AS A SINGLE, than 4 good,525-lb (average wt) ,sure-enough Red Angus steer calves that were weaned, vaccinated, and pre-conditioned. This happenned at a Northwest Arkansas sale barn, about 45 miles or so, from Will. Here, it's only about color, period. Marbling????These guys are still using Homozygous-Black-Continental sires. NOT Balncers, SimAngus, or Limiflex, neither. The Angus deal is just now BARELY taking ahold of things around here, through guys buying their replacements out of Missouri, instead of keeping back their heifers.

Scary, but, true.

GB

 

[garybob]

I will preface my comments by saying I am an Angus breeder.

You know what they say "Once you go black....."
I don't agree with the previous statement about IMF, you can't have too much...see Kobe beef.  How much do you have to pay for a pound of that stuff? In my mind and most consumers minds no marbling equals shoe leather. Why are steaks the most valuable cuts?  They are the most marbled.  If a consumer has to be concerned with how to cook a steak other than throw it on the grill they will not continue to buy our product.  Most people don't have the knowledge or ability to cook unmarbled beef and make it taste good and be tender.    

We all basically get paid for IMF if we sell feeders or replacements. By buying a strong Angus influenced animal a buyer is lowering their risk of getting an animal that is not well marbled.  Not eliminating just lowering.    

I have stated this before on this site, the American Angus Association has done a far superior job of getting consumers to know the value of Angus over the other breeds.  "You can't fit an elephant in a box."      

I really like this reply and I agree with 90% of it. I think where the problem comes in is the part about buying Angus influence and lowering the risk. I totally agree with this theory and believe it to be true, but the only way that you can assure that there is "strong" angus influence is to be in a program like CAB or Angus Source. Shorthorn have proven that they have as much tenderness and marbling as Angus but they are still getting discounted 20 cents on the dollar compared to any black crossbred calf. This is where the issue is. If you can verify that black equals high influence Angus, then the premiums should be higher, but cattle shouldnt be discounted for something other than black.

Bingo!!! I saw a 575-lb black, HORNED, Limousin calf that was STILL A BULL bring more money per pound AS A SINGLE, than 4 good,525-lb (average wt) ,sure-enough Red Angus steer calves that were weaned, vaccinated, and pre-conditioned. This happenned at a Northwest Arkansas sale barn, about 45 miles or so, from Will. Here, it's only about color, period. Marbling????These guys are still using Homozygous-Black-Continental sires. NOT Balncers, SimAngus, or Limiflex, neither. The Angus deal is just now BARELY taking ahold of things around here, through guys buying their replacements out of Missouri, instead of keeping back their heifers.

Scary, but, true.

GB

Even with Jac's Ranch, James Roberts (300 head of Emulous-bred cattle), Dixie Cattle company, and many small breeders here, change is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow.

GB

 

[aj]

I had a flush of face flies that were terrible at weaning. I noticed the spotted calves were bothered about twice as bad. These were spotted calves not roans. I don't know if it was a color deal or a bllodline deal or what. Pretty antedotal evidence I know but the solid colored Durham Red looking calves not bothered quite as bad.