Hats off to Jirl Buck and other tidbits!

[DL]

My hats off to Jirl Buck - he stepped up to the plate and did the right thing (IMHO). If you have been here for any length of time you know I have been critical of his approach in the past.

Just got my spring Buck Sale catalog - all his heifers are or will be tested and (these are direct quotes from the catalog)

"As of fall 2006, we are castrating all PHA carrier bulls to assure our customers that we will not sell carrier bulls. I think we can manage this by simply cutting the PHA carrier bulls and using PHA free sires in the future. I feel that carrier females will be fine with selective breeding"

Now I do find calling PHA a "birth defect" (which is technically true) a little bizarre as I would call it a death defect but hey I not going to argue about semantics when he stepped up to the plate, and after all it is a sale catalog  ;D

I posted this on SS but ya never know if it will disappear - after all there is no reason to talk about PHA any more, is there, because it is such a minor issue? (please note lime green denotes both sarcasm and jealousy)  try to explain how minor it is to a kid whose first heifer just died with a PHA calf.

and along the same lines our old friend Genetics Law Dawg posted the following thought provoking information - I invited GLD to stop by and expound nd expand, maybe MLK32 could too
..tidbits from GLD in blue
Just an interesting little tidbit on the subject of the omission of the carrier status.

I will leave this for interpretation come as it may but....

"K.S.A. 50-639(h) permits disclaimer of warranties for livestock unless the seller 'knowingly sells livesstock which is diseased.'"

Granted it says "diseased" and not "possessing genetic defects", but......

everybody have a great night - DL (cow)
oh boy I feel my karma slipping.....there it goes.....

 

[red]

I think Jirl realized the trend towards PHAC bulls. IMO, for a new bull to compete in todays market & develop popularity he will need to be clean. You will still have the tried & true bulls out there that are carriers still being used but when the next really good crop of clean bulls come up, you'll see less & less of them.
Yes, DL- I think you are nitpicking a little on the birth/death defect. It's a huge leap that it's just being acknowledged. I still would love to have a better understanding on the legal terms from Law Dawg.


  (welcome)Jirl Buck & all the other breeders, owners & sale managers that continue to do right : THANK YOU!

Red

 

[Telos]

Being a proud member of the "Foaming at the Mouth TH and PHA Patrol",  I'm starting to get a little skeptical about commenting on such a taboo subject.
What famous person said, "There is always a  price to pay when standing up for something you believe in"?  Well, I think our mission is starting to see
positive results. I've always understood the economics of these defects, but did that ever make it right to keep silent?

I think any of us ever wanted was for people to be forthcoming with their information. The bigger breeders knew something which was of importance
to the smaller breeders. What is so wrong with everyone knowing the GOOD, BAD and THE UGLY. We are all in this together. It's kind of like a symbiotic
relationship we should have with one another.

Jirl, you and I have known each other for a number of years. Even though I could never afford to buy your top end, I consider you to be an ingenious breeder
of cattle,  both functional and for the show ring. You did the right thing. You are my new "HERO". Great set of heifers, like always. Have the best sale ever.

Jack

P.S. I have never understood why some people get their panties in a ringer over this issue. I find it almost comical.



You and me both Telos - say PHA and some goon comes out of the woodwork and personally attacks you - I am not going to call Jirl my hero - took him a darn long time and I am sure he didn't do it out of the goodness of his heart BUT he did do it and I think his statement regarding carrier bulls is spot on. I think actually there are a couple of hero's in this scenario - Dr B, goodegg, Barrel Racer and a lot of breeders who did the right thing at the right time. It is pretty incredible that they found the gene, identified the defect,  and developed the test in just about a year - some investigators are still looking for genes that cause eye diseases in dogs after 25 years!

The wadded panty group - yup they are a funny bunch - say PHA and they get their knickers in knots - really ruins the line of their skin tight genes (woops, jeans)....

"I NEVER GIVE THEM HELL. I JUST TELL THE TRUTH AND THEY THINK IT IS HELL"
If you can guess correctly who said that (and they were not referring to PHA) you will win the first ever
Golden Wadded Panty Award........Now ain't that special ;D
DL

 

[Telos]

Red, are you saying we should blame all this commotion on rainbow colored designer thongs  that were intended to fit correctly on DL's Beef Pacas?

 

[Telos]

DL, I realize the time frame was a bit too long to say the least , but at this point in time I'll take anything as long as we know the truth.
I do have my higher ranking heroes. Sorry Jirl.

Now, about this full disclosure deal... well that's a different story. That should be an insult to everyones integrity. I don't think any of us should let
anyone off the hook by not listing something they know with regard to both TH and PHA. 

 

[DL]

Yup Telos - you are right...late truth is better than no truth!

Re full disclosure am hoping Genetics LawDawg will post or let me post the translation - very interesting ...

also agree with your interpretation of that - now why didn't you try to identify who said

I NEVER GIVE THEM HELL. I JUST TELL THE TRUTH AND THEY THINK IT IS HELL
DL

 

[Telos]

You know I've never been good at figuring out the answers to your trivia questions.
I have a guess, but I don't want to say because it might make me look out to be a foolish ignoramus.
I'll leave this  to all the smarter more knowledgeable people.

Come on everyone, DL needs some takers.  ))

 

[Show Heifer]

Well, I don't think some of those folks WEAR undies.....maybe things get caught in the zipper!!!
I would like to add my THANKS to all the breeders who tested ON TIME, and posted the results for all of us potential buyers who want to spend our money on honest, forth coming, disclosing folks!!! THANK YOU!!!!

As for the quote....I have read this somewhere.....my guess is Jack Nicholson. Or Churchill. Going with Churchill on this one!! (clapping)

How about this one: "Bad taste is simply saying the truth before it should be said."
I think I have some "bad taste"!!! ;D

 

[Joe Boy]

My guess is General Patton!

Maybe Hillary will add it to her chants.....

I think some of those without integrity have or will loose their drawers............. no seems in their tight jeans.....

The chips will fall where they may............... some will walk in them............

I think Mr. Buck will be followed by a long string of those who did not step up to the plate and kind of took the year off coasting on their past reputation, but now know that next year they have to negotiate a new contract.........so with free agency approaching they have to do something or be without a contract....

 

[knabe]

james whitmore said it in his one man play about him, and then i read more about the guy.  interesting he used to go on walks in DC disregarding his safety till an assasination attempt was made.  he would be a supporter of DL, dabbled in farming and livestock, and didn't graduate from college, but read more than most who did, particularly about history.  wheat was 2.15 in 1922. 

 

[DL]

James whitmore said it in his one man play about him, and then i read more about the guy.  interesting he used to go on walks in DC disregarding his safety till an assassination attempt was made.  he would be a supporter of DL, dabbled in farming and livestock, and didn't graduate from college, but read more than most who did, particularly about history.  wheat was 2.15 in 1922. 

OH knabe - close - very close but "no cigar" - he did say it (James Whitmore I mean) in a one man play but it wasn't about him (James Whitmore) but about the man who said it Whitmore, incidentally was from Buffalo (and hence would likely be a Sabres fan)!

Good guess Heifer, I could see Winnie saying it with that glint in his eye; Joe Boy I can see Patton saying it to (I can see me saying it too!! ;D ) BUT ......

Hint - the person who said it was American - middle America - the heartland ! DL

 

[knabe]

Hi DL,  should have been more clear mine was a hint.  I saw the play in HS and it had a lot of impact as did 12 angry men and a short clip about a story during the civil war where a couple of guys or just one, i can't remember, were being hung from a bridge.  he goes through a dream sequence and then wakes up.  another big impact was the book and movie the fountainhead.  my best friend's mother died suddenly last night which reminded me that people don't play cards anymore and that you should invite people to events even if you know they can't come.  i forgot to inviter her to my daughter's birthday party knowing she couldn't come.  It's nice to let people know they are in your thoughts.  we have forgotten that.  gotta do better.

 

[red]

Harry Truman
(clapping)

Red

 

[WCC]

Thanks DL for the invite to continue the PHA article discussion that was not welcome on SS.  I like that Buck has moved forward with only  marketing of PHA free bulls in his future production sales.  His spring catalog  supports only using PHA free bulls in the future or at least to manage the use of bulls that are carriers of PHA and not breed them to Females that are carriers. That is logical enough that even if you don’t understand the genetic defect that you could still avoid the problem. Which brings me back to the underling question.  If he is castrating all bull calves in his herd that are PHA carriers and doesn’t want to sell any more bulls that are carriers do you think he will pull of the semen market his line up BK bulls that are being promoted?  It seems that all but one unless I am mistaken are PHA carriers.  I don’t see much difference in managing AIing cows to  bulls that are PHA carriers and purchasing a bull that is  a PHA carrier.  Its all business and semen sales are a hugh percentage of a purebred breeders financial success.  SO I honestly don’t think he will pull his line up of PHA carriers off the market but it does raise this whole new question of how you can promote your ranch only supplying PHA free bulls when your still selling volumes of semen on bulls that are PHA carriers.  What are your thoughts on this controversial issue? ??? ???  WCC

 

[red]

(welcome)
Some good thoughts WCC.  I welcome your inputs, but I have a couple of thoughts or comments.

As much as I want this to be an open discussion on all topics, we can't just focus on PHA & TH. There are so many other issues out there that affect our industry. I hope this is not going to turn into a place where we just come to bash breeders who don't agree with us on some issues.
A breeder or bull owner has a right to promot his or her bulls, cows or genetics. If they are following the protocol set out by the associations & testing their cattle & releasing those results then great! If they don't, then just don't use them. I hate bashing of anyone. I don't like it on other boards & I hate to see it come here. We need to remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion. They are also entitled to make money how they feel fit. I can't tell someone that they need to pull all their semen because their bull tested positive. Can you really?  This is an issue that is not going to get resolved here or any other place. Education, open mindedness, education & communication are key factors. We can get the word out without condemning anyone or their livelihood.
We decided at the beginning that posts would not be pulled just because they don't agree with us. But I also don't want to turn away potential people because we are just one sided. Remember, this started off as a family/kid friendly site. Let's keep it that way! We can still express our thoughts & opinions & have our fun w/ Beefpacas, uniforms & many other things but let's just try to keep a little more tolerance.
I hope I haven't offended anyone & I'm not saying don't be yourselves but let's just have some fun! Remember it's the first full day of Spring!

RED - IF THIS SLEETING RAINING JUNK IS SPRING WHAT WILL SUMMER BRING??? DL

Red

 

[justme]

Where can I get a rainbow colored thong??? lol (clapping)

 

[WCC]

Red

I didn't mean to come across as attacking or bashing a breeder. Bucks spring catalog has some impressive heifers being offered again.    I just wanted to stimulate some indepth conversation.  I agree Its is a beautiful spring day and I too want to continue with friendly posts. 

(welcome)
Some good thoughts WCC.  I welcome your inputs, but I have a couple of thoughts or comments.

As much as I want this to be an open discussion on all topics, we can't just focus on PHA & TH. There are so many other issues out there that affect our industry. I hope this is not going to turn into a place where we just come to bash breeders who don't agree with us on some issues.
A breeder or bull owner has a right to promot his or her bulls, cows or genetics. If they are following the protocol set out by the associations & testing their cattle & releasing those results then great! If they don't, then just don't use them. I hate bashing of anyone. I don't like it on other boards & I hate to see it come here. We need to remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion. They are also entitled to make money how they feel fit. I can't tell someone that they need to pull all their semen because their bull tested positive. Can you really?  This is an issue that is not going to get resolved here or any other place. Education, open mindedness, education & communication are key factors. We can get the word out without condemning anyone or their livelihood.
We decided at the beginning that posts would not be pulled just because they don't agree with us. But I also don't want to turn away potential people because we are just one sided. Remember, this started off as a family/kid friendly site. Let's keep it that way! We can still express our thoughts & opinions & have our fun w/ Beefpacas, uniforms & many other things but let's just try to keep a little more tolerance.
I hope I haven't offended anyone & I'm not saying don't be yourselves but let's just have some fun! Remember it's the first full day of Spring!

Red

 

[red]

Sorry WCC! I wasn't directing it at you or anyone in paticular! I'm just wanting to keep this board user/kid friendly. i love the way we have all been able to come on & express opinions & not get attacked. I just want to continue that trend. no one has stepped over the line. I just don't want it to happen.
I'm sorry if you thought it was directed at you! I don't always word things quite right ))

Please send some sunshine here, it is raining again!
Are you from OK? I've been to the Junior Natioanls when it was in Enid.

Red

 

[WCC]

We are praying for rain in OK.  THey had over four inches in Enid in the past two days but we desperately need it in the SW part of the state.  We missed our wheat crop last summer, sillage crop, cotton burned up and sqeezed by on just enough foraage rolled up and were blessed with some wheat pasture.  We lookas as if we could have a record wheat crop if if rains soon! But need it very soon. I'll send you some sunshine and how about some of the blessed rain our way.  What area are you having this abundance of rain?

Sorry WCC! I wasn't directing it at you or anyone in paticular! I'm just wanting to keep this board user/kid friendly. i love the way we have all been able to come on & express opinions & not get attacked. I just want to continue that trend. no one has stepped over the line. I just don't want it to happen.
I'm sorry if you thought it was directed at you! I don't always word things quite right ))

Please send some sunshine here, it is raining again!
Are you from OK? I've been to the Junior Natioanls when it was in Enid.

Red

 

[red]

I'm from North west central Ohio. DL was in Ohio last week & I think she was getting her ark built.
We had some guys from NE at the expo & they couldn't believe the water standing. It's been like that all year. We made 5 cuttings of hay last year. Sell a lot to the dairies in the area plus what we use. we also custom chop silage & haylidge.

Red