HC Bluebook 22B ET

[justintime]

Here is a picture of HC Bluebook 22B ET that was taken today at Maple Stone Farm in Ontario. Bluebook topped the Sun Country Shorthorn Sale in March at $32,000. Since then he has spent over 2 months in stud followed by a 2000 mile truck ride to Ontario. He seems to have adjusted to his new environment very well.
Bluebook is one of the very few bulls I have raised that seems to continue to get better each and every day. I have liked him since birth but every time I went to the pasture or walked into our bull pen all winter, I liked him more. The folks at Maple Stone are saying the same thing. his actual stats are: BW 85 lbs unassisted. WW 692 lb  YW 1312 lbs. EPds are: 
CED 1  BW 4.2  WW 74  YW 92  Milk 13  TM 50

He is moderate framed with excellent thickness, length and one of the very best dispositions ever. He led the moment a halter was placed on his head the first time. His flushmate sister is also one of the very best we have ever raised as well. Semen is now available in Canada, USA and Australia.

 

[Doc]

Grant, He looks good. I think he has sure changed.

 

[renegadelivestock]

We are really excited to see blue book calves in the spring. He is a pleasure to be around and I look forward to being on the show road with him this fall

 

[mechanic]

Grant I think that Bluebook looks better than sale day. Scott and Bob have done an excellent job of keeping him moving forward since his arrival. Scott you should post the picture and pedigree of the sale heifer that is bred to him selling in Pennsylvania she is awesome.

Jim

 

[renegadelivestock]

She is a Hot Commodity x Waco/Rodeo Drive

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Are you breeding her to him for a first calf? He has almost the ideal pedigree-rodeo and trump etc on enticer etc. But he's awfull stout-and so is she-along with some scary non-calving ease on her side other than Hot Commodity O0

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Great looking hiefer are you breeding her to him for a first calf? He has almost the ideal pedigree-rodeo and trump etc on enticer etc. But he's awfull stout-and so is she-along with some scary non-calving ease on her side other than Hot Commodity O0

 

[renegadelivestock]

Yes we are. We feel with his ideal shoulder angle, exceptionally smooth make up and exceptional skull shape he should not be a problem for her. While I Agree that the CE genetics on the her dams side are less then ideal, I also have enough practice experience with her immediate cow family to alleviate any personal concerns about calving trouble.

 

[justintime]

I am always hesitant to call any bull as being safe for use on heifers, as so many other factors can influence the calving ease other than the sire. I did breed some heifers to Bluebook so I would have a bit better understanding of his calving ease. He, himself had an actual BW of 85 lbs. His flushmate sister was 88 lbs and all my Orion calves were moderate sized at birth and unassisted. Hopefully, we will know a bunch more by next spring. Bluebook does have some thickness to him, however I think he is shaped right and is very structurally sound. Personally, I think if you use a bull with unsound structure, you are only increasing the chances of added calving problems of his calves.
His full sister is another reason I believe in this bull. She is just as correct and just as good, maybe even better. Time will tell.

 

[renegadelivestock]

Her Dam and full sister

 

[Doc]

That's a good looking pair. What is the cow's reg. number?

 

[renegadelivestock]

Number - Numéro: -[CAN]*19771-

 

[Medium Rare]

Her Dam and full sister

The bull is coming along nicely, but this pair is pretty impressive!

Very nice cattle!

 

[aj]

I don't know..........I always shudder when people use the same genetics over and over and say that calving ease won't be a problem.....this time. Makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Its kinda like..........I've never been convicted.......of a felony.

 

[justintime]

I don't know..........I always shudder when people use the same genetics over and over and say that calving ease won't be a problem.....this time. Makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. Its kinda like..........I've never been convicted.......of a felony.

aj... I don't think anyone has claimed that Bluebook will be a calving ease bull. I will know much more next spring when I get some calves from him. Bluebook himself was born very easily ( 85 lbs at birth) but I am not going to call him "safe for use on heifers" until we know for sure. His recip mom is one of our smallest framed recips. I have only had a small number of bulls that I would recommend to use on heifers as there are so many factors involved besides the bull himself which determine calving ease. There are heifers out there that probably would have some problems calving a Longhorn sired calf.
In regards to using the same genetics over and over, I would say that I think we have managed to select some genetics from many different bloodlines that will calve easily. I have spent my entire lifetime raising Shorthorns and have also had several cowherds of several different breeds as well and quite frankly, I assist far less calves at birth today that I ever did in the 70s, 80s and 90s. Part of the reason for this, is probably the selection of sires. I also believe that we have also changed the cows and heifers some, to allow them to calve a normal sized calf.
Again, I will say that there is so much more involved in calving ease, other than birth weight of the sire. I am sure you will remember how many times you told me that I was propogating serious calving problems when I used our Timeline bull. I believed in what I was doing, and did not listen to you, and in four complete calf crops from him, I did not assist a single Timeline calf at birth. His sons have been some of our most popular commercial bulls and one large commercial herd has used 7 sons. He loves the calves he is getting. He says they have uneventful births and have great post birth performance. That is just one small example.
In regards to using new genetics, I am always looking for new genetics that could be beneficial for my breeding program. In the past year, I have purchased the rights in two Aussie bulls that I think could really work here and I have also purchased a package of semen from another bull in Australia that has proven to be safe on heifers down there. In regards to Bluebook, the Aussies don't seem to be as concerned as you are about calving ease issues. The Bluebook semen just arrived in Australia, and has not even been released from Australia customs yet, but already more of his semen has been ordered that in all of North America. Time will tell if he works or not. Sometimes you just have to study your lessons and be willing to try something new. If you don't you will stay exactly where you have been in the past.

 

[Duncraggan]

If all goes well this mating should give you a smashing calf!

 

[Charguy]

First nice looking Shorthorns. no matter what color they are, they are good cattle and I appreciate that.
Just one thing you guys keep mentioning that is a little off to me. You keep referring to his birthweight and his recept mother. You should never consider the birthweight on an et calf as something indicative of what the bull or heifer can or will throw. The genetics of that calf are in the calf, but the recept controls the environment.
I had some Char ET calves last year that pushed 120 (and all were over 100) out of huge simmental cows. The winter was cold and those cows ate to keep warm and it effected the birthweight. They didnt have trouble and could handle the size of the calf. This year we put in the same embryos but used Angus based cows and the birthweight was 75 - 95 (not one over 100). Not as hard of a winter and smaller cows = smaller calves at birth.
Dont want to be a jerk or anything, but personally, I put zero value on an ET calfs birthweight. It should not be advertised or shown. Please dont take this the wrong way, Im sure you know your bulls better then anyone and who will work on a heifer and who wont. For soem reason seeing that statement bothered me.

 

[aj]

I might add......Shorthorn people make greek goddesses out of the Shorthorn cows that have 3 generations of embryo transfer. No enviromental pressure on them for 3 generations......the females live in a air conditioned barn and eat 50 pounds of show rations aday......and have never eaten a twig of green grass. Its so far from the real world that it makes you sick. Then you groom 300 kids ayear at the junior nationals to buy into this method of beef production. Its horseshit.

 

[justintime]

First nice looking Shorthorns. no matter what color they are, they are good cattle and I appreciate that.
Just one thing you guys keep mentioning that is a little off to me. You keep referring to his birthweight and his recept mother. You should never consider the birthweight on an et calf as something indicative of what the bull or heifer can or will throw. The genetics of that calf are in the calf, but the recept controls the environment.
I had some Char ET calves last year that pushed 120 (and all were over 100) out of huge simmental cows. The winter was cold and those cows ate to keep warm and it effected the birthweight. They didnt have trouble and could handle the size of the calf. This year we put in the same embryos but used Angus based cows and the birthweight was 75 - 95 (not one over 100). Not as hard of a winter and smaller cows = smaller calves at birth.
Dont want to be a jerk or anything, but personally, I put zero value on an ET calfs birthweight. It should not be advertised or shown. Please dont take this the wrong way, Im sure you know your bulls better then anyone and who will work on a heifer and who wont. For soem reason seeing that statement bothered me.

Charguy... I agree with everything you said here. I included the BW as it seems if you don't most people will ask. I should have included some reference to him being an ET calf so BW may be not very important. In my herd, I don't see much difference between the BWs of my ET calves and my natural born calves. In looking at my calving records this year, I had 3 donors calve naturally as well as have at least 1 ET calf born. I seldom see more than 5 lbs difference between the ET calf and the natural calf. In one case, one donor had an ET heifer calf that weighed 95 lbs at birth. Her natural bull calf weighed 90 lbs. In my case, probably part of the reason for the moderate differences is because most of my recips are similar sized cows from our own herd. I do have one Angus X Simmental recip who has now had 7 ET calves. She has consistently been the last recip to calve out of every group she has been inplanted with. Most of the research I read says the recip has little to do with gestation length ( and BW), but I think there is some relationship. This cow is always 7 to 10 days later than all the other recips to calve. Her ET calves are therefore heavier at birth.

AJ - I don't think Shorthorn people are any different than people in many other breeds in making greek goddesses from cows that have 3 generations of ET. You can find these in every breed. You may not like it, but it is a sign of the times. If you go back and look through breed history's of most any breed, you will find herds that pampered their cattle. Some of the most famous cows in some of these herds, had very pampered lives. It was just as far from the real world then as it is now. When I look back at some of the famous cows from the early decades of this century, I expect many of them never had many days without supplemental feed. You just won't find some of these famous cows with famous show careers that were raised and treated I guess what you have to do, is select the female lines you wish to have in your own herd and allow others to do the same.

 

[oakbar]

Good looking pair!  God Luck with Bluebook--he looks good!