HC Vanguard 22Z

[aj]

I apologize to you Doc for raising unworthy genetic defect free Shorthorn plus cattle. Shorthorn people love the black and roan shorthorn pluses that carry at least 2 defects. One the one teleconference call I was on a few month back we talked about the Shorthorn Plus perception of genetic junk. Nobody even thinks about the Shorthorn breed having something like the Sim Angus or balancer type program. The perception is that the Shorthorn Plus deal is a CLUB CALF DEAL only. The big deal is that almost all Shorthorn people hate cattle that look like Red Angus. They just hate it. They want color. I sold  batch of Red Angus looking half bloods at the Oberlin sale barn that weighed under 500 pounds and they brought almost 900 dollars a piece. The beef industry doesn't want color for what ever reason. I really don't care whether I am in a Shorthorn Breeder mutual admiration society or not. People say I am not a Shorthorn breeder because I don't raise purebreds. The ASA didn't turn down the over 1,000 dollar WHR money I sent in though. Bahahahahaha

 

[mark tenenbaum]

The Durham Red Deal was the biggest screwing the assoc ever put on breeders Forward to today on the club calf appearances side-Ones that resemble a Shorthorn and RED Angus xs are breaking the bank in beltbuckle $1000 duckwalking cowboy boot land-because they have virtually disappeared Even now-many of the best Charolais and Hereford and "Angus' appearing calves come from half or unregistered Shorthorn dams  Back in the day- There were a bunch of REALLY good Durham Reds that also just disappeared Doc had one hell of a roan cow bred that way Probably the best JMO female ive seen of his-Maybe the best I never got to see were Jerry lehmans in Wisconsin -he was producing from what I heard some outstanding red Angus Xs in the early-mid 90s on I have stated this humble opinion on a number of occaisions and I guess I now see a not so subtle move by the Assoc towards black shorthorn XS-I mean-how many blue roans are you gonna produce?-I  think that any f 1s etc are about  the only way people are going to use Shorthorns commercially This is is because they can see them-They dont give a SH%^&^*()_T about a couple feed tests-even though those tests have alot of merit to purebred breeders and are proof of the bottom line-that these cattle grade The last time Shorthorns were used in any real volume by everyone was the club calf days when they ruled And later with  bulls like Proud Jazz and  Capiche who were actually safe and useable  So-the Shorthorn lemmings downed them for DS and used "0" BW weight Solution sons, Salute etc Then Hot Commodity gets bred one time to the resultant progeny and you have a 0 BW bull for all the friends and neighbors-FOR ONLY $50-100 a straw I want the oldschool thick look in a little more manageble package -because thats what people continually ask me about and those are the ones I like Commercial guys are used to real thick cattle that dont necessarily kill their cows nor melt into a bag of bones-Produce that and you have the same thing 8 other breeds have had for years Yeah yeah-there are exceptions- Any semen on Warlord-ANY comments on maine Impression-I know where his semen is and like the oldschool shorthorn side just dont know from there how he looked or calved O0

 

[Doc]

Stylist's sire was a purebred Red Red Angus. I had him tested for I think two Red Angus defects. I have spent over 7,000 $ testing for th over the last 10 whatever years. I'll have to look for paper work on the dam she was tested or clean by pedigree. It was probably done by Beever and not the official company. I'll send in a test to the official company this fall. I may draw semen this fall. I'll take bets on his results. It isn't hard to raise genetic defect cattle......unless you are taking short cuts to win in the show ring.

So didn't you take a carrier to Denver ??

 

[Doc]

I apologize to you Doc for raising unworthy genetic defect free Shorthorn plus cattle. Shorthorn people love the black and roan shorthorn pluses that carry at least 2 defects.

No need to apologize to me !! I don't give a rat's butt what you raise. I can pretty well guarantee that whatever you raise I won't be buying just like whatever I raise you won't be buying. We have different type buyers, so we raise different type cattle.
As far as your bull goes, I was just pointing out that he was more RA and Maine than he was Shorthorn. Also other than taking your word for it no one knows that he is defect free because there is nothing on the ASA website. Like I said he or his dam would have to be tested for all 3 defects with animals in her pedigree that have all 3 conditions.
Yes you are correct, people like those blue roans. Myself included. I don't agree that they have to have 2 genetic defects to be good though. I like the red roan Pluses and even solid red ones. But the solid red ones need to be a darker red and not that pumpkin orange. JMHO.
The 3 blue roans and 1 other one are all recips for me. They have awesome udders, easy fleshing and are 1/2 Shorthorn. The red roan is a RA x Shorthorn cross female.

 

[knabe]

What’s the foot score on that mongrel bull?

Cant see any pasterns at all.

 

[aj]

He's good footed. Hid daddy was not great. The Angus cattle are poorer footed than Shorthorns in my experience. Yes.......Doc when we took a pen of plus bulls to Denver in the pen of 5. We had them entered and tested for th late. We had one that came up a th carrier. We did not scratch the pen and went ahead and went to Denver. Seems like 7 years ago or so.

 

[Duncraggan]

I apologize to you Doc for raising unworthy genetic defect free Shorthorn plus cattle. Shorthorn people love the black and roan shorthorn pluses that carry at least 2 defects.

No need to apologize to me !! I don't give a rat's butt what you raise. I can pretty well guarantee that whatever you raise I won't be buying just like whatever I raise you won't be buying. We have different type buyers, so we raise different type cattle.
As far as your bull goes, I was just pointing out that he was more RA and Maine than he was Shorthorn. Also other than taking your word for it no one knows that he is defect free because there is nothing on the ASA website. Like I said he or his dam would have to be tested for all 3 defects with animals in her pedigree that have all 3 conditions.
Yes you are correct, people like those blue roans. Myself included. I don't agree that they have to have 2 genetic defects to be good though. I like the red roan Pluses and even solid red ones. But the solid red ones need to be a darker red and not that pumpkin orange. JMHO.
The 3 blue roans and 1 other one are all recips for me. They have awesome udders, easy fleshing and are 1/2 Shorthorn. The red roan is a RA x Shorthorn cross female.

Doc, you must have the best quality recips in the country! Beautiful cows!

 

[Doc]

Doc, you must have the best quality recips in the country! Beautiful cows!

Thank you very much. They do a great job.

 

[aj]

I think we will have to pull cattle of grass here in 30 days because of the drought. So will have a chance to do that. I don't know why people would not test and double test all herd bulls. It is a hell of a lot better than and cheaper than testing 50 of their daughters. You are a good man doc.

 

[knabe]

He's good footed.

maybe an updated pic of his feet?  they looked pretty straight in pic you provided.