Heatwave. is it all Legit?

[Bradenh]

ok im not attempting to call anyone out on here by any means and i do not want to start some kind of war. BUT howmany of you on here actually spend 350 dollars per straw for a legit heatwave steer? when i know of some folks who buy semen for 20 dollars per straw and then advertise and sell the calf as a heatwave, which disgusts me. is there alot of people who do this? simple economics would tell you to do like the fellow who i spoke of earlier. but ethics and fairness would say not to advertise a calf like that because its lying. i am glad i can safely say that we have 50 show steers born per year and we have not false advertised one and dont even use a.i sires because we have a good herd bull. just would like to hear what people have to say on the topic because its a total toss up on how you approach selling cattle

 

[savaged]

What!  Unethical practices in the show cattle industry?  That's just crazy talk. 

 

[cornershack]

we bought a heatwave this year and the breeder told us upfront it was from a clone

 

[bs372280]

wow you hit the nail right on the head.  It goes on everywhere, personally I dont use heatwave or monoply and dont advertise it. Everyone is so hyped up on heatwave genetics its peer stupid.  Every year at our sale there are people that call and want to see the heatwave and monopoly's, after telling them I don't have any they don't even really look.   Its just funny because if you go to a cow or heifer sale there is a ton of who's, and simmi's, but when you go to a steer sale there are heatwave and monopoly's.  Personally heatwave is so overrated its rediculous.  Its common sense after thinking about it.  If the producer or jocky has a super steer that is lets say a dirty harry, 7 out of 10 times they will call it a heat wave, because everyone wants a damn heatwave steer.  

 

[Mueller Show Cattle]

I can understand if it is a clone becaue it is the same DNA as the orginal Heatwave, nothing is different. Me personally I would say if it is a clone as I will not spend the $300 for the orginal semen when I can by the clone for $30 which I can buy 10 straws of clone semen for 1 straw or regular semen when it is the same DNA semen, it is a no brainer to me. But when it is not what you say it is and not a clone, that is something I can't stand. I bought a Heatwave heifer this past fall, I did not ask if it was clone semen or not because I bought her because of how she looked and her temperment and I won the auction on her not just cause she was a Heatwave. But I wish people would be more honest also cause I agree I'm sure there are more people than we think doing it which I can't stand.

 

[ruhtram]

I think however someone buy's the semen (from who ever that may be), is how they should advertise their calf. I think people probably just say HW when its really HW6, for example; but that's because they view HW and HW6 as the same. Which on a scientific stand point is true. Lautner is really helping with this broad advertising by listing winners as "sired by HW or Clone" in his sire directory. I really don't see this a huge issue. The only difference is practically their name.

 

[fed_champions]

Theres good HWs and bad ones, u should look more into the phenotype of a steer than the genotype, because thats all the judge is going to knw. From the breeding aspect, i agree it is imperative to know exactly what you have. But, its always been and always will be an unknown as to whether the breeder is lying or not, cattle get registered everyday on false pretences. Another note, if u can see cattle well, ive noticed that HWs are easy to spot, theyve all got a certain look to them where i can tell what they are before i even ask. Btw, my interest goes down on a calf when i hear Heat wave, theyre just so hard to feed right, that ive lost interest in them.

 

[kfacres]

(pop)  No Worms..

<deadhorse>  two words I say

 

[knabe]

don't judges carry with them the listed sire of the steers and immediately bottom any non-heatwave steer?

 

[FarmerWanna-Be]

don't judges carry with them the listed sire of the steers and immediately bottom any non-heatwave steer?

:-\ Seems like it to me

 

[rasor club calves]

I would make sure that cow does good with similar mating first, and flushes good too.

 

[RSC]

Cattle should be represented for what they are but in the case of a clone does it really matter?  If someone use a full brother of a bull and called it the original, that would bother me because they aren't genetically the same.  I purchased a Heatwave heifer this year and didn't even ask.  I don't really care if it's the original or out of Heatwave58, it would still be the same pedigree, IMO.

I read a thread a while back where some were claiming they would use Monopoly 2 because they liked his picture the best of the two.  I know some don't agree but if I order some Monopoly Clone, I don't care which one they send me. Same results IMO.

Tony

 

[Bradenh]

.  If the producer or jocky has a super steer that is lets say a dirty harry, 7 out of 10 times they will call it a heat wave, because everyone wants a damn heatwave steer. 

thats where im coming from, i understand the cloning deal but is there really this many heatwave steers actually out there or are more out of some other bull that is more deserving of the hype

 

[hntwhitetail]

I think he was trying to make the point that more steers get called heatwave or clone, than are acutally heatwave or clone, to drum up more business..

 

[thebulllady]

It's all in the MARKETING.  Apparently Heat Wave has had a reputation for good steers, so potential buyers that may not know a good animal from a not so good one recognize the sires name, and assume it will be good.  People are like sheep sometimes.. won't make their own decisions based on research and spending some time looking, but will do what "everyone else" is doing.

 

[farmin female]

(pop)  No Worms..

<deadhorse>  two words I say

Ok, maybe I'm to tired, but this is weird man, just plain weird.....

As for HW, the best calves we have had were HW or family.  Had a heatseeker steer that did good, couple of HW's and have a Kemosabe right now that I really like.  Just seems like the chances go up with a good HW calf and yes, I trust the breeders that we bought from.  Of course, there are other good calves out there.  Our breed reserve champ at state last year was a Hardcore.  Really liked that little dude.  If I were raising show calves though, don't know that I would go down that road.  But, at the end of the day, for every good HW calf, there are probably 5 or more that are pukes.  And you do have to give Lautner credit, look at the list of HW or clone winners.  Impressive.

 

[BK]

just some facts i have read about cloning.. a few years ago i food a article about the stud horse they cloned . it was the first horse cloned.. i think.. I'm goon try to find this article .. but it stated that their are not totally identical clones a few DNA's from the mother the carrier... in that case horses.. rubbed of on the fetus.. it was put in a paint donor and the stud they were cloning was a solid color and never threw color .. the clone came out with a Little color and threw a lot .. so they studied and some of the DNA was different.. 99% is the same but their is some different .. just something i read .. true or not but i am goon looking it..

 

[Bradenh]

something in the mitochondria of the donor makes it a slight bit different

 

[kfacres]

something in the mitochondria of the donor makes it a slight bit different

recip man.. donor is the same regardless.. O0

Here's how I look at that 98%...

If you had a steer that was 98% the same as the steers that won L'ville, KC, or Denver...  WOULD YOU SHOW THEM?  

 

[BVLN]

I know this is an old thread, but I just happened to find it. I did a quick google search to see if they finally did or did not officially "allow" products from cloned animals OR THEIR OFFSPRING to enter the food chain, and all I found was public uproar about the topic. Granted, most was in the UK, such as this article http://www2.canada.com/topics/technology/science/story.html?id=3368876 but nevertheless, lets think about this for a moment. Heat Wave (and clones) is/are used to produce terminal offspring (steers & market heifers). Putting the percent offspring of these clones that will be slaughtered at one year of age probably greater than 80%. Considering the thousands of straws marketed from these Clones each year, and how many calves of cloned bulls this puts into the food chain, we are lucky that there isn't some sort of PETA / HSUS etc. uprising here like there has been in the UK. In that article, a petition with 7,000 names and a government building protest was staged for ONE animal entering the food chain from a cloned dam. The government followed up by stopping another animal from the same cloned dam from entering the food chain, and an on-farm investigation was started by the government.

Back to the topic, I do not have a problem if producers advertise their cattle as being a Heat Wave or Dirty Hairry or Ali or Full Throttle without mentioning the Clone at the end of the name if that saves this already fragile industry from suffering a fate similar to that of the poor bloke that tried to sell his old bull in the UK. Heaven only knows, it could jeopardize our trade agreements with our best foreign buyers! I know I'm not going to go to the sale barn with the ones that didn't make show prospects and get on the mic and say they are sired by a cloned bull! Honesty is always the best policy, but when it comes to cloning, it seems honesty is at your own risk.

Ah, I finally found an update http://www.scribd.com/doc/37620134/Cloned-Animals-%E2%80%94-2010-Update