Heatwave or Clone

[BIGTEX]

I am going to buy some Heatwave semen and was wondering if was worth the extra 40 dollars for the Real Deal or just buy a clone? ??? ???

 

[red]

I've heard good comments about number 6. I guess I'd use the clone.

Red

 

[Jill]

Technically they all have the same DNA and should be the same.

 

[DLD]

Like Jill said, they should all be the same. Heat Wave 1 aka Wave on Wave has proven himself very well, but I understand that his semen may be in short supply this spring, too.

 

[oakbar]

I just had a breeder tell me this morning that they thought it was unusual that the Heat Wave clones all look different while clones of other bulls look extremely similar.  He also seemed to think that their calves from the clones weren't as good as the ones out of the original HW.  I've never used HW--I think there are too many negatives attached to consider them anything but a terminal cross--nor have I ever seen any of the clones.   Do they really look different or is this just a "rural" myth??   If they are clones you would think they would look almost identical.

 

[Jill]

I have no sophisticated answer for you, but we spend the extra for the original.  We flushed to Heat Wave 1 and don't know if it was a fluke or what, but they didn't even look like Heat Wave's so we never bought him again.  The best looking one going off of pictures is 6, but it may be as some have suggested just the difference in  how clipping has changed with the passing years.

 

[kane1598]

I think that they would all look really similar if they were all together and the same age. The heatwave 1's I have seen are really good, just as good as the originals.

 

[Ryan]

I just had a breeder tell me this morning that they thought it was unusual that the Heat Wave clones all look different while clones of other bulls look extremely similar....

I don't think that is all that unusual.  There was a calico cat that was cloned, early in the whole cloning ordeal, and the clones came out with different (not vast, but different) color patterns, and very different personalities.  There have also been a number of Texas Longhorns cloned, and there are differences between them, as well. One thing to remember about the phenotype of the clones is that the environment plays a very large role in the expression of the genes. Many factors go into what an animal looks like, i.e. milking ability of the dam, milk quality of the dam, available forage, time of year born, climate, etc...

Although, its just pictures, and there is only so much (very little actually) you can tell from pictures, I like #6 the best. Something about him, softer, more power, I think. 

Ryan

 

[simtal]

the reason calves look different is because everything today that is good is called a heat wave. 

 

[DLD]

I have no sophisticated answer for you, but we spend the extra for the original.  We flushed to Heat Wave 1 and don't know if it was a fluke or what, but they didn't even look like Heat Wave's so we never bought him again.  The best looking one going off of pictures is 6, but it may be as some have suggested just the difference in  how clipping has changed with the passing years.

Jill, did you have any original Heat Wave's out of that particular cow? For as impressive as he (they) can make one, he (they) doesn't niche on every cow, even some of the good ones.

Not saying you're wrong, there may be some difference in how they breed, I just know that HW1 has sired plenty of  good ones.

I have more first hand experience with the Full Flush clones, and I can't tell any difference in how they breed, either.

I saw the FF clones at SEK when they were prob'ly 4-5 months old. When I first walked in the pen, it just appeared to be a group of black calves, varying noticeably in size and condition (due mostly to their recip mothers, I guess). But after I studied them for awhile it was almost eerie how alike they were. They were built the same, walked the same, had the same proportions (length of neck, length of hip, etc...), the same thickness (allowing for the differences in condition) muscle shape, and so on. Based on that, it's easy to believe that their genetic makeup was identical.

 

[Throttle]

I had always used the original until this last year. I now have calves by HW and HW1 on the ground. If anything, the clone's are better, but if I look at how they were bred, I probably gave him the best chance on the cows that they were used on. I have decided that I'll just use whatever clone has the best semen quality from now on. The good HW semen is way scarce. Last year I got 34% conception on the HW and 67% on the HW1 using just a little over a cane of each, so I'm just gonna go the route of best conception from now on, as the calf quality was all over the board with both bulls, and the best 2 are HW1's

 

[Ryan]

I think Throttle has the best idea. In "theory" HW and the clones should be genetically identical, SO using the Best quality semen should give the best results, as far as getting calves on the ground is concerned. B/C no matter if the calf is not that great, its still better than no calf on the ground at all.

Ryan

 

[Telos]

What does anyone think about HW calves that are TH free as opposed to carriers? Is there a big difference?

 

[C-CROSS]

One year we used Wave on Wave and the calves came huge, the next year our heifers could have had them and this year the consistency was even worse.  It would be different if we didn't run 250 cows and they were in a lot and not out on psture 24/7, we were  just talking today and think this is probably the lsat year we use him on our place just not worth a shot in the dark for a maybe. JMO

 

[common sense]

We have used both Heat Wave and HW1 and if I put them all in a pen together I would defy anyone to pick out which were which...unless they read their tags.  I guess I don't have a prblem using either bull but I guess I would spend the extra on HW if I were flushing or breeding my very best consistant cow.

 

[GONEWEST]

I think that the differences in calves by these bulls can be attributed to the inconsistency of Heatwave period. This guy in Texas must have had 25 steers by Heatwave 1 that were as good a set I have ever seen of any sire. That I am Legend calf is a Heat Wave 1, isn't he? I had some old original I used as well as some 1 calves this year and some were good and some were average and some went to the stockyard. I have never seen 6, but the first two don't have a right front foot turned sideways, I don't know if that means anything or not.

There are three units left here of the original and I'm going to flush with it, just in case the original is better,lol. It makes sense to me they would breed the same and that the differences could be chalked up to the inconsistencies in club calf-three and four way cross bulls in general.