HeiferPlus
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red
Well-known member
this from Cowboy on another thread:
Folks, I was going to discuss this very topic soon, but now I see it in print, and while I am waiting on the embryo freezer to finish, I will let you know a few things I am concerned about -- meybe for nothing but any way -----
First of all, with today's some what limited quality semen on some of these matings we all use, I am personally not too keen on waiting an addition 20 minutes ( which will be longer by the time you prepare the set up) to go breed a cow with already challenged semen. That does concern me some.
Secondly -- unless these KITS come with a new straw in the kit -- you will NOT be able to re-raw the semen back into the old straw -- reason being -- the cotton plug end has this set up -- cotton -- PVC powder - Cotton. Once this is wetted, it becomes impermeable to further asperation, simply put -- it PLUGS the straw to prevent any thing from coming out or going in!
Unless they send you a new straw, this is going to be nearly impossible to pull back into the straw -- plus you will need a 14 gage needle to fit the 1/2 cc straw -- a 1/4 fits a 16 gage needle.
I am getting at least 5 different sets of this product sent to me for testing from a few of my customers. I will most definately report back as to how easy it was, how it all came together, AND most importantly -- what kind of results we achieved from fertilization after this trauma to the semen. We won't know how well it worked as far as sexing goes until much later at calving time!
As if we do not have enough challenges any way with a few of these donors, now this. I am excited if it will work, but it could be a nightmare if this just takes away the last little bit of GOOD from some of this semen. Not running it down yet, but I am concerned to start with with no direct experience. Will let you all know soon, say in less than three weeks I think.
Smile -- sun is shining here finally!
Terry
also this LINK: http://www.cattlevisions.com/heiferplus.html
Folks, I was going to discuss this very topic soon, but now I see it in print, and while I am waiting on the embryo freezer to finish, I will let you know a few things I am concerned about -- meybe for nothing but any way -----
First of all, with today's some what limited quality semen on some of these matings we all use, I am personally not too keen on waiting an addition 20 minutes ( which will be longer by the time you prepare the set up) to go breed a cow with already challenged semen. That does concern me some.
Secondly -- unless these KITS come with a new straw in the kit -- you will NOT be able to re-raw the semen back into the old straw -- reason being -- the cotton plug end has this set up -- cotton -- PVC powder - Cotton. Once this is wetted, it becomes impermeable to further asperation, simply put -- it PLUGS the straw to prevent any thing from coming out or going in!
Unless they send you a new straw, this is going to be nearly impossible to pull back into the straw -- plus you will need a 14 gage needle to fit the 1/2 cc straw -- a 1/4 fits a 16 gage needle.
I am getting at least 5 different sets of this product sent to me for testing from a few of my customers. I will most definately report back as to how easy it was, how it all came together, AND most importantly -- what kind of results we achieved from fertilization after this trauma to the semen. We won't know how well it worked as far as sexing goes until much later at calving time!
As if we do not have enough challenges any way with a few of these donors, now this. I am excited if it will work, but it could be a nightmare if this just takes away the last little bit of GOOD from some of this semen. Not running it down yet, but I am concerned to start with with no direct experience. Will let you all know soon, say in less than three weeks I think.
Smile -- sun is shining here finally!
Terry
also this LINK: http://www.cattlevisions.com/heiferplus.html
farmboy
Well-known member
has anyone had any results yet?
Cowboy
Well-known member
I did do "ONE" flush using the Hfr plus -- and only one !
Using very good semen, authenticated under the scope prior to mixing with hfr plus, and on a Low Line donor who had done well the first time -- the results were not good.
ALL the eggs were unfertileized. At my place, that is something that hardly EVER happens with good semen. All I can say with such a limited exposure is this it is possible the semen was made to go hyper speed (The main result of the hfr plus is tospeed up the hfr sperm cells) to the point where it just flat wore itself out before the eggs were released. However, seeing how I breed very late any way -- I doubt that was it.
My impression was that it just took too much out of it and we ended up with supfertile semen in the bargain.
The owner has 9 doses left here -- any takers -- all bids considered! hehehe
I was told to not experiment any further -- and I agree. Am all ears of any one else has used it -- there must be some good results some place or the stuff would never have been marketed any way.
Not going into any more donors here -- at least not without some proof!
Terry
PS -- It wasn't all that hard to complete the transfer -- but I would say this -- you really need to be in a heat controlled room, or the exposure is going to kill the effort. I did it right in my office -- so that was not the issue! The 20 minutes cook time most likely was though. Pretty tuff even on good semen!
Using very good semen, authenticated under the scope prior to mixing with hfr plus, and on a Low Line donor who had done well the first time -- the results were not good.
ALL the eggs were unfertileized. At my place, that is something that hardly EVER happens with good semen. All I can say with such a limited exposure is this it is possible the semen was made to go hyper speed (The main result of the hfr plus is tospeed up the hfr sperm cells) to the point where it just flat wore itself out before the eggs were released. However, seeing how I breed very late any way -- I doubt that was it.
My impression was that it just took too much out of it and we ended up with supfertile semen in the bargain.
The owner has 9 doses left here -- any takers -- all bids considered! hehehe
I was told to not experiment any further -- and I agree. Am all ears of any one else has used it -- there must be some good results some place or the stuff would never have been marketed any way.
Not going into any more donors here -- at least not without some proof!
Terry
PS -- It wasn't all that hard to complete the transfer -- but I would say this -- you really need to be in a heat controlled room, or the exposure is going to kill the effort. I did it right in my office -- so that was not the issue! The 20 minutes cook time most likely was though. Pretty tuff even on good semen!
JSchroeder
Well-known member
Unrelated question, do you have to get on your knees to work on those Lowlines?
Cowboy
Well-known member
One step ahead of you pard -- instead of ME sitting in the dirt -- I simply put several layers of 2x8's in the chute and run her in. The extra 6 inches of AIR under her really makes it easier to work. PLus, the bar or chain behind the donor then fits where it is sposed to be instead of being an ARM BREAKER --
Hi tech stuff for sure!
Nice little cows -- trust me -- they don't take any crap off the big ones, pound for pound -- they are tuff little critters!
Terry
Hi tech stuff for sure!
Nice little cows -- trust me -- they don't take any crap off the big ones, pound for pound -- they are tuff little critters!
Terry
dori36
Well-known member
Cowboy said:
You're right on all counts. Now, for the real question: have you or anyone you know had any luck (or is it being done at all) processing semen that is already frozen, sexing it, and refreezing it? I have lots of semen from my now-deceased bull and would like to add some value to some of it if possible.
Cowboy
Well-known member
Dori -- I am not the all knowing semen guy -- there are those who do -- however!! - seeing how it takes several hours to acclimate the semen in raw form to the cryoprotectant, then acclimate it to the slow downward spiral of temp -- and then slow freeze it -- I would be extremely surprised if it would ever make it twice.
Once frozen in glycerol and extenders, it must be warmed and have time to metabolize the stuff off itself vefore they can once again fertilize an egg. This is very hard on them (Sperm cells) so in doing so, they use up a lot of thier limited supply of energy.
Also, the process of freezing and thawing creats at least SOME ice crystals -- and each one of them can and do CUT the tails off directly or at least severely damage some of them. I think it would be a total disaster to try it twice - and especially after trying to sex thawed semen -- a double strike if you will.
Wish I had the answer -- but to me it would seem to be close to attempted murder for those little swimmers!
If I had more exposure and then the ensueing confidence in the Hfr and Bull plus deal -- that may be the way to go. I wasn't very impressed the first time, and as most know -- you only have ONE chance to make that first impression in life -- anything you do happens the first time only once!
Take care all -- we had a good day here -- despite the dreaded wind!
Terry
Once frozen in glycerol and extenders, it must be warmed and have time to metabolize the stuff off itself vefore they can once again fertilize an egg. This is very hard on them (Sperm cells) so in doing so, they use up a lot of thier limited supply of energy.
Also, the process of freezing and thawing creats at least SOME ice crystals -- and each one of them can and do CUT the tails off directly or at least severely damage some of them. I think it would be a total disaster to try it twice - and especially after trying to sex thawed semen -- a double strike if you will.
Wish I had the answer -- but to me it would seem to be close to attempted murder for those little swimmers!
If I had more exposure and then the ensueing confidence in the Hfr and Bull plus deal -- that may be the way to go. I wasn't very impressed the first time, and as most know -- you only have ONE chance to make that first impression in life -- anything you do happens the first time only once!
Take care all -- we had a good day here -- despite the dreaded wind!
Terry
drl
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 14, 2007
- Messages
- 265
I went out on a limb and tried using heiferplus and bullplus last June. With typical AI, I had just as good conception rates as if I didn't sex them in the first place. We did flush a few cows this summer and tried using it. Our vet recommends using 3 straws of semen to breed the donor. So, I sexed 2 of the straws and used one normal in case it didn't work right. We had a high percentage of fertilized eggs from doing this. Now I know it could be that maybe the non-sexed semen did all the fertilization but I think that would be slim. For example, 2 of our flushes had 7 of 8 eggs fertilized that we transferred.
I am holding judgement on if the sexing worked until I have calves on the ground. We did have our cows ultrasounded for preg checking but we did were not able to get a sex from ultrasounding on all of them. I will try to post when I have calves on the ground.
I am holding judgement on if the sexing worked until I have calves on the ground. We did have our cows ultrasounded for preg checking but we did were not able to get a sex from ultrasounding on all of them. I will try to post when I have calves on the ground.
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