Heritage/Native Shorthorn Bull Listing

[oakview]

The dilution of "pure" genetics of almost every breed of every species is a direct result of breeders, and often a breed association, attempting to make their breed something they're not.  Selection within a breed for certain traits can take many generations.  Someone is always looking for a short cut.  Anybody know where I can find a real Angus?

 

[cbcr]

The dilution of "pure" genetics of almost every breed of every species is a direct result of breeders, and often a breed association, attempting to make their breed something they're not.  Selection within a breed for certain traits can take many generations.  Someone is always looking for a short cut.  Anybody know where I can find a real Angus?

oakview, I think of any statement that could have been made,this is the most accurate statement.  well said!

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Dairy Shorthorns in Uk also allowed Holstein, as well as Norwegian Red, Swedish Red, Ayrshire, Illawarras, Red Danish. They starts the crossbredings on the 60's and now is very rare find real pure Dairy Shorthorn on UK without infusions.
Seems like Shorthorn is an extinct breed.

That is the same problem here in the US.  What the AMSS did when they allowed those outside breeds, they gave them full Milking Shorthorn numbers.  When we started our registry, we were noticing that many of our Scandinavian breeds were showing a percentage of Milking Shorthorn.  After following the trail, we discovered that the Norwegian bull K.Schie was identified as a Milking Shorthorn and had no ancestry showing for him.  We added several generations to his ancestry and then we had to correct his ID so that his Norwegian Red number was the primary number.  Also the Illawarra were given full Milking Shorthorn numbers and in doing so offspring of those bulls born in the US were not being included in the International proofs at Interbull.

With so much outside breed influence the Milking Shorthorn for the most part is nothing more than another Red Holstein as many of them today are over 50% Holstein genetics.  Breeders are finding out just how little Milking Shorthorn genetics are in their cattle and many are looking for ways to bring the purity of the Milking Shorthorn up to a much higher level.  If they don't the breed may very well find itself in extinction, this is a comment that I have heard several times from geneticists and others in the last couple of months.  This is not only a problem in the US, but all other countries that have Milking Shorthorn.

Some times I have the feel that some Breeders Societies make this intentionally. To cause mistakes and breeders lose her patience and enter in full on the mongrels crossbreedings!

Always had in ind that a breeder society is to keep and preserve the breed genes! KEEP and PRESERVE! Of course that some breeding programs are necessary time by time for one or another reason, but they can simply make clear what are the crosses and what are not, and keep in clear for all!

 

[Willow Springs]

So are there any Heritage beef lines left, or do all the current live Heritage cattle derive from Haumont breeding? I don't think there would be any left here in Canada as I am fairly sure that every Shorthorn in the closed book has multiple crosses of Irish cattle. I have checked a few herds that would be most likely and they all have Irish.

 

[cbcr]

There are several that have non-Haumont genetics and the number is growing.

Those interested can look on the HSS website heritageshorthorn.org or send an email to HSS at [email protected]

 

[Medium Rare]

Is there a stand alone database where animal pedigrees and defect status can be browsed or is this dependent upon the ASA and breeders maintaining dual registrations?

 

[cbcr]

Is there a stand alone database where animal pedigrees and defect status can be browsed or is this dependent upon the ASA and breeders maintaining dual registrations?

As we build the database, we will have a searchable database for the Heritage Shorthorn online that will have the information.

 

[Heritage Shorthorn]

On February 1st the Heritage Shorthorn Society (HSS) will be posting a list of Heritage bulls that have tested free of TH,  PHA, DS. and MYO.  This list will include several famous old Heritage bulls that have never had genetic information posted on them before and will be updated as more information becomes available to HSS from breeders using the semen from Heritage Shorthorn bulls.  This list is independent of ASA although some of the information may also be on either the ASA or CSA websites.  Only Heritage bulls that have been tested for all four defects will be listed.  Heritage bulls that have been tested for 1-3 of the defects will not be listed.  They can be added to the HSS list if the missing information is provided to HSS.  Partial information on some these bulls may be available on the ASA or CSA websites.

As HSS builds its genetic data base more and more pedigree information will become available.  Certainly there is pedigree information on both the ASA and CSA websites for many Heritage Shorthorn bulls particularly those that are dual registered.  All Shorthorns registered with HSS will have their searchable pedigrees posted along with known genetic test information.  For those interested, there is also an option on HSS registration papers for milk protein (A2, etc) information to be posted if it is known.

 

[RyanChandler]

What’s the significant of the defect free list?

All of the recognized defects were infused via Maine or some other outside blood.  (The cattle gods sure have a funny way of keeping people honest)

Is it not implicit that if it’s truly a ‘heritage Shorthorn’ that the animal is free of all 4?

 

[knabe]

So having a defect helps  prove they are not pure?

Not sure what that really does.

 

[Heritage Shorthorn]

XBAR’s question is complicated.  To my knowledge PHA and DS have never been detected in a Heritage Shorthorn nor has the E226X MYO mutation  There is a well known case of TH popping up in the Clipper King USA line but establishing where it came from has been difficult.  TH has never been detected in any other Heritage Shorthorn.  MYO is a more difficult issue because of the many different mutations of MYO.  The F94L MYO mutation has been found in a Heritage Shorthorn line but it is impossible, at this point, to say where it came from.  The possibility exists that there was a separate F94L mutation in Shorthorns.  The difficultly lies in the lack of DNA samples to work with in Shorthorns from more than 80 years ago.  The existence of Shorthorn semen samples today from as far back as 70 years ago is helpful but do not necessarily answer all the MYO questions.  Because of the possibility of a mutation occurring at any point within a cattle breed, the testing of Heritage Shorthorns for TH, PHA, DS, and MYO can not be the only determinant of purity.  The Heritage Shorthorn Society recommends that all Shorthorn bulls be tested for the four genetic conditions.  Unfortunately no one can be sure about what went on behind the barn 100 years ago let alone last week.

 

[knabe]

So. Use what you want, and if they happen to have a defect, test for it and screen.

 

[Willow Springs]

Actually the E226X MYO mutation in Western Canadian pedigrees is believed to originate with a cow that by pedigree would qualify as Native. Pedigree link below.

https://csa.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=F624382&member_id=

 

[RyanChandler]

Actually the E226X MYO mutation in Western Canadian pedigrees is believed to originate with a cow that by pedigree would qualify as Native. Pedigree link below.

https://csa.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=F624382&member_id=

The pedigree is wrong

 

[knabe]

where.


the association should sequence the region around the mutation, compare against all animals from all breeds, declare it came from where ever and throw the animal out of registry.


do this over and over.


shouldn't be too hard. one can find all sorts of breeds in other breeds now.

 

[RyanChandler]

where.


the association should sequence the region around the mutation, compare against all animals from all breeds, declare it came from where ever and throw the animal out of registry.


do this over and over.


shouldn't be too hard. one can find all sorts of breeds in other breeds now.

What would be the incentive for an association that generates income based on volume of registrations to take any measure to minimize or limit access to said registry?    That’s the problem.  All but the Angus and Hereford associations have essentially sold their soles to the devil by opening the herd books and making not breed purity but rather revenue  the motive for their existence.

 

[Willow Springs]

Yes the rumours say that the pedigree is wrong, but I haven't read or heard someone say so definitively. Rumours are sometimes true and other times people just spouting off that they heard from a guy who talked to a guy.

Actually the E226X MYO mutation in Western Canadian pedigrees is believed to originate with a cow that by pedigree would qualify as Native. Pedigree link below.

https://csa.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=F624382&member_id=

The pedigree is wrong

 

[RyanChandler]

Yes the rumours say that the pedigree is wrong, but I haven't read or heard someone say so definitively. Rumours are sometimes true and other times people just spouting off that they heard from a guy who talked to a guy.

Actually the E226X MYO mutation in Western Canadian pedigrees is believed to originate with a cow that by pedigree would qualify as Native. Pedigree link below.

https://csa.digitalbeef.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=_animal&file=_animal&search_value=&animal_registration=F624382&member_id=

The pedigree is wrong

Maybe knabe can help me here— Are there any verified examples of an exact same mutation occurring in two separate populations?

My thoughts are no.

And with that said, the only viable explanation is that the pedigree is wrong and the cow in question is in fact  a crossbred Maine Anjou.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

So. Use what you want, and if they happen to have a defect, test for it and screen./// Absolutely-thats how some really good clean cattle evolved from carriers-breed em to a clean one O0

 

[beebe]

Based on what I have been reading and learning lately the F94l variant is also called the profit gene as it improves cutability without adding any calving difficulty.  So if it occurs in native Shorthorns why is it a bad thing?