Highway Robbery

[rmbcows]

I am looking for hay in the Ohio, Michigan and Indiana area. They are charging in some cases $9-10 a small square 50-60#s bale plus $1.50 shipping per bale. I think they should be ashamed taking advantage of the market. I am feeding my cornstalks and skipping the hay. I might as well go to TSC and buy alfalfa cubes at that price.
UGH! I will remember all those when hay is plentiful again that are taking advantage of a bad siutation.

How much hay are you looking for?  I know of 2 semi loads of small square prairie hay bales for sale in Indiana.  If you're interested, I'll try to find out more info. 

 

[shortyisqueen]

I am going to play devils advocate and I do not condone gauging.    I will admit we sell hay and I would love to sell it for nine dollars a bale, currently we are getting $5.60 out of the barn.  The cost to produce high quality hay has really increased.  When you figure fertilizer, land values , fuel and labor.  Last year I had almost $70 a ton in the hay and my time was free.    My next argument is last year I sold a group of heifers at the sale barn for a ton of money, at a point were I do not think they can ever break even.  Should I send them a refund because they paid to much?  It is simple supply and demand.  I beleive the days of cheap hay are behind us.  Their may be some for a few more years but with the cost of production going up it will drive the price of hay  up  and as the older generation who have thier land and equipment paid for retire the guy that has to pay interest can not sell it as cheaply.  In todays enviroment you are not only competeing with other farmers for the hay to be used as feed but their other markets for hay and straw.  We have sold it to landscaping companies, the state for drainage ditches and sell a lot to horse people who do not even consider the price.  As well they are going to be using hay in the production of ethenol.   

I have to agree that supply and demand rules the market. The hay seller would be an idiot to sell his hay at half the price of his neighbors just to 'do the right thing.' If, in a couple years, the hay price drops, will his hay buyers still pay him a higher price so he can make a living even though the prices are down? I doubt it!

What probably is the most irking about the situation, OH Breeder, is that the hay supplier probably sold it out from under you after you spoke for it. If he said he would have your hay, he should have darn well made sure he had the bales to sell you! Of course, we have also had hay buyers speak for hay, wait for the price to drop, and then buy their hay cheaper somewhere else while we had the bales saved in our yard (which we could have sold for a higher price while we were 'saving' them). Now...we always ask for a deposit!!!!

 

[OH Breeder]

I am going to play devils advocate and I do not condone gauging.    I will admit we sell hay and I would love to sell it for nine dollars a bale, currently we are getting $5.60 out of the barn.  The cost to produce high quality hay has really increased.  When you figure fertilizer, land values , fuel and labor.  Last year I had almost $70 a ton in the hay and my time was free.    My next argument is last year I sold a group of heifers at the sale barn for a ton of money, at a point were I do not think they can ever break even.  Should I send them a refund because they paid to much?  It is simple supply and demand.  I beleive the days of cheap hay are behind us.  Their may be some for a few more years but with the cost of production going up it will drive the price of hay  up  and as the older generation who have thier land and equipment paid for retire the guy that has to pay interest can not sell it as cheaply.  In todays enviroment you are not only competeing with other farmers for the hay to be used as feed but their other markets for hay and straw.  We have sold it to landscaping companies, the state for drainage ditches and sell a lot to horse people who do not even consider the price.  As well they are going to be using hay in the production of ethenol.    

okay, I hear you adn understand the market conditions are driving the price up. BUT, hay at 10/bale for 60#s plus a 1.50 shipping per bale for GRASS HAY. HOW much do you have invested in GRASS hay.At this price it equates to 340/ton without shipping. If my math is right. I have no problem with anyone making a profit. I think 5 is reasonable considering the conditions we had here. BUt in a normal year, as someone mentioned in an earlier post, we are supplying the south with hay. OUr hay fields general make 4 cuts. Round bales have jumped to 70's for grass. I am not talking about good quality alfalfa and clover mix. I am talking about guys that paid a penality on there government land to bale the weeds and grass. Think about that for a moment. They could make more off the hay than they could in a set aside program. In my area also cattle prices bottomed out becasue as DOC mentioned lots folks dumped there cattle instead of feeding them. Cows at market brought 47 cents a pound, feeders dropped to 81 cents a pound. So either way it would be hard pressed to make any money. If you made a bunch of profit at the sale barn Yippee..unfortunatley that is not the case.
This is like a paper cut and it is irritating because I always plan and usually am the guy that has stores to help everyone else out. As they say, no good deed goes unpunished.

 

[DL]

Yup it sure is a sticky wicket (we haven't seen those for a while) - I usually plan and have several usually real good local hay sources - having to feed hay in July and half of August when the pasture was toast really put a bite into my hay budget - when the one source (and I have gotten hay from them for years - I am loyal and I pay on delivery) told me their 1st cutting was down 90% and they were selling to horse people in KY and FLA and they couldn't guarantee that they would have hay for me I got paranoid and hussled until I found some hay at a decent price from several different sources - and these people did what they said, held the price and held the hay - it will be easy to be loyal to them, not so easy to be loyal to the guys I've gotten hay from for years.  In a perfect world I should be all set but if it is really cold I'll need to tap into my silage supplier - no matter how you look at it this was an expensive year to feed anything - the "horse" people are spending up to 10 buck a bale for small squares - not many people would sell them to cattle people for 2 bucks! There is hay available at reasonable prices - but it may be far away and there is a cost to ship it....in our area, besides the drought many of the hay fields were plowed under to grow corn for the booming ethanol plants......nothing is simple and the wicket is getting stickier by the minute

 

[dutch pride]

I have read a couple of reports of studies done with limit feeding whole shelled corn/supplement with a little low quality hay or straw or corn stover to overwinter cows. Even at 3.50 corn it was supposed to be cheaper than 80/ton hay. Has anyone done this or heard of this being done? I also buy all my feedstuffs and am lucky to have a good hay source but always looking to do things cheaper as long as they work.

 

[Show Heifer]

"High and Mighty" naw, but cheap and persistant. YES. Darn right!!!
I meant that a WEE BIT sarcastic, but really, I did the same as DL, when someone gave me the run around, I kept looking until someone told me "YES, I WILL HAVE YOUR HAY."  Maybe I am paranoid, maybe not, but I have hay in the barn and hay ready for me in the morning.  And I won't really call it cheap, last year I paid $2.50 for 2-3 cutting alfalfa bales in the barn and $30 for big rounds. So my price is up also.
My uncle sells hay to dairies in WI, IA, and any other state. His price: Whatever he can get. Honestly. If someone is willing to pay $150 per ton plus delivery, SOLD. If the market is slow, supply plenty and someone offers $75, SOLD.  Gee kinda sounds like gas doesn't it????  Do I blame him for getting every last penny he does? No. Do I buy hay from him? No, I can't afford it.
OH Breeder,  I truely hope you find good hay for a reasonable price. I didn't mean to come off as mean, but really, it IS supply and demand. Be a bit more aggresive next year, and hopefully you will get lucky!!!

 

[Richburg]

Hey Richburg, what units of measure are you talking about with your prices that you have posted please?

it differs in size because we buy from whoever and srore it semi trailer until we sell all of it.

pretty much they are a regular size square bale.

 

[Doc]

"High and Mighty" naw, but cheap and persistant. YES. Darn right!!!
I meant that a WEE BIT sarcastic, but really, I did the same as DL, when someone gave me the run around, I kept looking until someone told me "YES, I WILL HAVE YOUR HAY."  Maybe I am paranoid, maybe not, but I have hay in the barn and hay ready for me in the morning.  And I won't really call it cheap, last year I paid $2.50 for 2-3 cutting alfalfa bales in the barn and $30 for big rounds. So my price is up also.
My uncle sells hay to dairies in WI, IA, and any other state. His price: Whatever he can get. Honestly. If someone is willing to pay $150 per ton plus delivery, SOLD. If the market is slow, supply plenty and someone offers $75, SOLD.  Gee kinda sounds like gas doesn't it????  Do I blame him for getting every last penny he does? No. Do I buy hay from him? No, I can't afford it.
OH Breeder,  I truely hope you find good hay for a reasonable price. I didn't mean to come off as mean, but really, it IS supply and demand. Be a bit more aggresive next year, and hopefully you will get lucky!!!

Show heifer, I don't know where you live , but here in TN we saw a drought like  we haven't seen in years. I know other areas have seen this same thing in recent years. But around here a lot of people had their hay bought for the winter by the 1st of July like normal. But this year wasn't normal & people started feeding hay by the end of August , instead of end of November. I know if I hadn't sold 25 cows back in March & April I would be in the same boat as a lot of others. So try not to be so judgemental of others unless you know the particular situation ( especially when he was asking for help from his online friends) & just be thankful you don't have the same problem OHB & a lot of others are having. 

 

[JSchroeder]

I'm still amazed that you guys can't find hay but our phones aren't ringing here in Texas where you can barely give it away this year.

We've certainly shipped the other way for the past three years and the prices I see quoted aren't nearly the gouging we took from producers in your area.

 

[shorthorns r us]

I'm still amazed that you guys can't find hay but our phones aren't ringing here in Texas where you can barely give it away this year.

We've certainly shipped the other way for the past three years and the prices I see quoted aren't nearly the gouging we took from producers in your area.

that  is what i was getting at.  we have hay available and i know i can get it shipped for $2.20 or less/loaded mile on up to a 34 bale load.

 

[OH Breeder]

I'm still amazed that you guys can't find hay but our phones aren't ringing here in Texas where you can barely give it away this year.

We've certainly shipped the other way for the past three years and the prices I see quoted aren't nearly the gouging we took from producers in your area.

that  is what i was getting at.  we have hay available and i know i can get it shipped for $2.20 or less/loaded mile on up to a 34 bale load.

992 miles from Ok CIty to my home town where farm is at 2.20 a mile =$2050.40 cents in shipping
34 bales load rounds at $30=$1020.00
$3070.40    34 bales last me one month and half

2000# grain/cow feed every two weeks at $300.00 one month half $900.00
I am opting for grain and culled a portion of the herd this past summer.

There was no hay in June, or July or AUgust. I was feeding hay in June as some folks noted when i posted pictures of calves, "Hay in June"....I thought I had a supply. It ran out. 
THANK you to those of you who have replied with information. I appreciate it. I have been to several websites. Find some at a cost. So be it.

 

[JSchroeder]

Us Texas boys keep suggesting that you buy our cheap hay this year because we already know what the shipping cost is.  We know because we either paid it last year or we sent cattle to the auction barn.  I personally had low quality alfalfa shipped from Wyoming to San Antonio.

Hay is dirt cheap compared to what we had to pay in the Summer/Fall of 06 to ship it even further than your example.

Take heart, if you are balking at those shipping costs, it's not too bad yet.

 

[shorthorns r us]

in order to maximize cost effectiveness of in the tight feed years,  hit your energy right on target.  hitting the protein target and exceeding the energy need will cause extra rumen activity and therefore lead to increased consumption of free fed hay or cows that think they are hungry.

 

[justintime]

I have experienced more than my share of droughts in the past 25 years. Some years, were not so much drought as late killing frosts that cut the hay crops to  1/4 of normal. Where I live, we normally get 1 hay crop per year, with an occasional second cut. I would only do a second cut if feed supplies are very low. I have found that taking a second cut here usually cuts the hay tonnage in the following year by more than we get in a second cut. We live in a semi arid area, where when our seasons are normal,we get great hay and grain crops, but if we even get one frost or dry period between late April and mid June, our hay crops can be greatly affected.

Over the years, I have seen hay prices at both ends of the scale. We had a good hay crop this year, and I doubt if anyone could sell a bale of hay here if they priced it at $10 per bale. I have at least a two year supply of hay now, but if I had less than that, I would definitely be trying to buy up some hay as insurance for next year. I realize that in many areas it is very hard to carry over hay from one year to the next, without come method of keeping the elements from turning it into manure.

I do not blame anyone for selling their hay at whatever the market will bare. Some would call this gouging, but I think most everyone would never think of it as gouging to sell their grain crops on high markets. A friend of mine in North Dakota just sold durham wheat at over $18 / bushel. He completely paid for 640 acres of land that he purchased this spring for $600/ acre from the first crop he grew on it. Nobody considers him as price gouging. He simply took what the market was offering. Selling hay is a market driven commodity. You can price you hay at whatever someone else is willing to pay for it. If it is too high, it wouldn't sell. If it is reasonably priced, someone will buy it.

I have learned that in years that hay gets too high, you need to really consider each and every option you have. A few pounds of grain and anything that a cow will eat for roughage will go a long ways through a winter. Once calving starts, then you may have to feed some high quality hay.
A few years ago, we could not find hay within 500 miles of us. We bought in a few loads and the trucking was more than twice the price of the hay. At the time we had over 1200 head of cattle so this option simply was not going to work.
I considered every feed option we had within a reasonable distance from our farm. Twenty miles from here was a distillery. I went to a salvage yard and found some unused propane tanks and had them cut in half. The distillery had its own trucks hauling stillage to dump in fields. I offered them 1 cent a gallon if they would haul some to our farm, and they accepted the offer. Fifty miles from my farm, I found a seed cleaning plant that was cleaning sunflower seed. I knew that sunflowers were high protien and also a good energy source. I found out that they were dumping the refuse sunflower seeds in a slough as they had no place to get rid of them. They gave us all we wanted for free if we loaded and hauled them. We took our old grain truck and a tractor with a bucket and in 3 days had a few thousand bushels. Originally, I planned to just dump them out to the cows and let them roughage through them. I sent a sample of the sunflower screenings away for a feed test, and was shocked when I found out that they were 42 % protein and also extremely high in energy. I felt there would be too much waste if I dumped it in piles and let the cows eat what they wanted.
At the same time, we were tub grinding some wheat straw to stretch out what we needed to add to some feeder rations. I did an experiment where I layered straw with a small amount of sunflower screenings  and wet it down with stillage from the distillery. To my surprise it heated just like silage. The feed test of this pile came back better than the little alfalfa silage I had that year, and the cows loved it. The resulting product cost me less than 1/3 what buying hay would have, however it did take a little work.

All I am saying is that  sometimes there are other options to buying hay.  Cows are very adaptable, and they can utilze feed stuffs that other animals cannot.