*** How do you get a Heifer to stop kicking? ***

[knabe]

hobbles and brooms are devices working on the same principle.

i still challenge people to get tom dorrance's book "true horsemanship through feel" that was written by leslie diamond or at least look at it in the library.

http://www.lesliedesmond.com/

check out the section on how he brought the horse up next to a raised section so he could get on a horse at an advanced age.  to me, that's one of the most relevant sections directly translatable to training calves.

 

[common sense]

hobbles and brooms are devices working on the same principle.

i still challenge people to get tom dorrance's book "true horsemanship through feel" that was written by leslie diamond or at least look at it in the library.

http://www.lesliedesmond.com/

check out the section on how he brought the horse up next to a raised section so he could get on a horse at an advanced age.  to me, that's one of the most relevant sections directly translatable to training calves.

I COMPLETELY agree with you KNABE. The only reason I would use the hobbles is to allow for hand's on work like you are referring to without anyone getting hurt. It's just a safety factor for anyone that is not experienced in tecniques like Tom Dorrance's. Hobble's aren't meant to be the cure, they are simply to keep anyone, including the critter, from getting injured. You are spot on as far as training. You have to get into their brains but you also have to understand that their brains are different from a horse much like a horse is different from a mule.

 

[knabe]

also have to understand that their brains are different from a horse much like a horse is different from a mule.

their defense mechanisms have different throttles and gears, but the are very much the same.  they are happiest when their head is near the ground and where they exhibit trust the most.  thats why i work with them low to the ground because they are hard wired to be curious there and it's more in their comfort zone.  yes, they eat tree branches, but the vast majority of their time is with their head down.  predators are the opposite when looking for food.

that's why, to me, working with nothing on them, or at least with the halter loose allows them to easily see areas where they need work on and we need to slow down.

 

[VJ]

[I have been at this probably longer than you have been alive, and I have NEVER seen beating an animal to be effective in making the GENTLE.   I mean, how does that make sense? If you beat on me, I probably won't like you either.
[/quote]
You've been breaking calves for 42 yrs???? Hmmmmmmm Save the I'm smarter than you attitude for somebody that cares!  
If I kick you and you then kick me back a lot harder, I will quit kicking you because it hurts when I kick you. It doesn't have to like me it just needs to know it shouldn't try to hurt me. I don't buy into the Obama theory of diplomacy.
"They say the best weapon is one you never have to fire, I prefer the weapon you only need to fire once." Tony Stark - Ironman

 

[knabe]

If I kick you and you then kick me back a lot harder, I will quit kicking you because it hurts when I kick you. It doesn't have to like me it just needs to know it shouldn't try to hurt me. I don't buy into the Obama theory of diplomacy.

it sounds like you described obama care to me.  obama kicks and kicks and kicks till everyone gives him their money.  at some point the american public better kick him back in the form of impeachment along with at least 20 democrat senators and 80 house members.

democrats hate the private sector, unless it's subsidized of course.  too many "conservatives" are the same way.

 

[kw kid]

[I have been at this probably longer than you have been alive, and I have NEVER seen beating an animal to be effective in making the GENTLE.   I mean, how does that make sense? If you beat on me, I probably won't like you either.

You've been breaking calves for 42 yrs???? Hmmmmmmm Save the I'm smarter than you attitude for somebody that cares!  
If I kick you and you then kick me back a lot harder, I will quit kicking you because it hurts when I kick you. It doesn't have to like me it just needs to know it shouldn't try to hurt me. I don't buy into the Obama theory of diplomacy.
"They say the best weapon is one you never have to fire, I prefer the weapon you only need to fire once." Tony Stark - Ironman
[/quote]

I like your quote, my a** is allways in the fire and stretched to thin. My brainwashed mother in-law (from chicago) visited this weekend and I powerwashed her van and oops took off her Osama bumper sticker.