How do you inseminate with old semen: Amps?

[RSC]

After reading the Cunia thread: was just wondering how the Amps work?  Do you need the old equipment or can you thaw it out and transfer to a straw? 

Thanks,

RSC

 

[Jenny]

Wow, do I hate answering this question cause it shows my age, but here goes..........
the old amp contained several cc's of semen so that is way, way more than a straw.  We used a "pipette" and a syringe with a rubber connector that would draw the semen up out of the amp into this pipette which was like a very heavy drinking straw. 
Would suppose that if you were temp controlled, and protected from the sunlight and had someone there refilling your straw you could maybe give it a whirl.
Maybe someone else has a better idea.

We also thawed amps in ice water for about 12 minutes??  Anybody remember?
You also opened the glass ampule with a scribe...would make a cut in the narrow part and then pop the top off

 

[Cowboy]

Yes you did Jenny, your experience will for sure put you in the OVER 50 gang like me. I bred a ton of cows back in the 70's with amps and all of that mess.

Now -- if I get an amp to use for a donor, I do this --

Thaw the amp in ice water until "ALL" ice is gone from the outside as well as inside -- this will take at least 10 minutes, meybe more depending on whether it was an ABS amp or one of those bigger 1cc amps from over seas.

Most of them will already be scribed from the 70's, but the earlier ones were not -- I don't have a scribe so I just fileit with a small file on one side until you see a good scratch -- wrap it in a paper towel, and snap the top off where the scribe is -- it iwll have a smaller neck there .

If you use the old pippete method, you will almost be quaranteed to waste some of the semen, it simply can not be al recovered from the amp as well as having a residue left in the pippete. Instead, I take a couple 1/4 cc straws we use to ET or get a DRY 1/2 cc straw from your bull stud supplier and using a small 3ml syringe, put either a 12-14 gage needle for the 1/2, or a 16 gage needle for the 1/4 and draw the semen up into it until the cotton plug is wetted -- that is what holds it in the straw and can't leak back out.

You will be able to get all the semen this way, it is safe. Load you gun or guns as normal -- go breed the cow just like you normaly would. Remember -- those old amps had 60 million sperm cells -- long before todays scimpy 5 mill semen. If the quality is still good, you won't have any problems breeding two cows with one amp -- GET ER DONE!

Terry

 

[Jenny]

I will have you know, Cowboy, that I am just BARELY over 50!
I have been heat detecting cows since I was 12 and A.I.ing since I was 18.
How the time flies....

 

[RSC]

I will have you know, Cowboy, that I am just BARELY over 50!
I have been heat detecting cows since I was 12 and A.I.ing since I was 18.
How the time flies....

A big thankyou to Jenny and Cowboy, I feel much better.  I woke up this morning my back was killing me & my shoulder hurt and I was feeling old.  I feel much younger after reading your responses.  (clapping)

Thanks for the info as well.  Cowboy, If I ever found some Cunia and flushed to it I would prefer a higher % Heifers.  If you were to transfer the semen to straws and the Heifer Plus product turns out to be easy to use and we're comfortable with it, would you be able to then use this on the newly transfered straws?  I realize the jury is out on the product,  I just like to think ahead.

We are going to try some Heifers plus in the next few days, Just pulled some cidrs.  I will let everyone know how it worked.

RSC

 

[Cowboy]

RSC -- I haven't yet used the Hfr plus -- but we are about to.

After getting the semen from the amps into straws, it would be the same package as we all get delivered today when we order semen, so YES, it would work just the same way. I personally am going to use a new straw to pull the semen back out of the vial after treatment instead of trying to shake it back in there -- haven't done it yet -- but it seems darn risky to me. Something about that process concerns me -- can't say why yet -- but I am a realizt rather than an optimist -- I don't get overly optimistic on most new things until I actually "DO" it -- hehehe!

Good luck every one using this product -- let's all keep eachother posted on it's use -- that is how we all learn. I will post any results I see -- good OR bad. I know one thing, what will be easy for one person to do may not be so easy for the next -- this may prove to be the same scenario!

Talk later -- Terry

 

[Jenny]

Would the Heifer Plus work with amps?
Because of the increased volume of the ampules; the amount of the Heifer Plus is made for the volume of semen in a straw.

 

[red]

dumb "red" question- what is heifer plus?

Red  ))

 

[kanshow]

Red, it's a new product that you can do it yourself on sexing semen.  There was a thread on it while you were out...   

 

[justintime]

I remember the outcry when the industry moved from vials to straws. ( yes, I am a member of the same club as Cowboy and Jenny... even if Jenny is a relatively new member!!!). Many cattlemen were opposed to the straws  and thought it would be the end of their AI careers. I remember some old timers even buying up some extra semen in vials so that they would be not have to worry about using straws. Isn't it funny how people struggle with change? In my world change usually is a good thing. Not always, but usually.

I am also often amazed at how some things repeat themselves every few years. I am a bit of a semen collector, that is I would rather buy another semen tank than have to throw out some semen to make room for some new semen. As a result of this, I probably could not use up all the semen I have if I lived to be 200 ( some of you that know me are probably thinking that I am almost there  now!!) I have semen that was collected from the early 60s that I have not used or sold in probably 30 years. For some reason, these old sires have regained some popularity again and in the past two years I have sold more semen in vials that is from the 60s and 70s than I have from sires from today's era.

I understand that some of these bulls were good enough to have a place in any era, but some were kinda ordinary when they were alive ,.... and they are even more ordinary today. I flushed a donor with semen that was bottled in 1962. We had a very good flush and got 16 grade 1 embryos out of 17  embryos produced. So, if you find some older semen, as long as it has been properly managed, it is good for many decades into the future. 

So... Cowboy and Jenny.... if one of you wants to call a special meeting of the " over the hill gang" I would be more than ready to swap a few lies about the good old days... that is if I can remember when the meeting is.....

 

[Joe Boy]

Cowboy:
I was going thru my breeding supplies a couple of weeks ago and found a package of the pipettes and bubbles.  I still have my thawing Styrofoam case and my first thermometer and gun.  I now use an electric automatic thawing chamber but still the old gun.  I have two others but just cannot quit using my original. 

The largest ampules I ever used were to breed a couple of neighbors cattle to beafalloes.  Twice the size of the ABS ones.

Enjoyed memory lane!

 

[Doc]

Is it correct that on ampules that the semen was froze in the amps in racks at an angle? So if you look at an amp & the semen is not at an angle then it has been mishandled? ???

 

[Cowboy]

Doc -- you are correct. Ampules were slowly frozen at a 45 degree angle to show that they were never let thaw and re-frozen later. Kind of an insurance policy if you will.

Bottom l;ine -- NEVER buy and pay for semen in ampules if it looks to be frozen level full. It must have an off kilter level to be considered viable semen, one that was never comprimized after it's initial collect date. Good question Doc -- that is good to know for every one -- I had forgotten to mention that .

Amps were the way it was back then, just like when I first started for Midwest Breeders, they were one of the last to convert over to straws -- we were given the Majic Wand as it was called. A simple pippete filled with semen -- heat sealed on one end before freezing. You would take it out of the tank -- cut off the sealed end with dog toe nail clippers -- place a partially aqueezed bulb on the end and head to the cow still frozen or in the process of thawing. Once to the cow -- go in and make placement -- squeeze bulb and hope it didn't fall off or not eject all the semen -- those were the days. Believe it or not -- that semen was frozen in a milk based extender -- and I remember enjoying a 70 plus percent conception rate on COMMERCIAL dairy clients -- it was very good semen. This was done one or two cows per stop, all day long. I would cry and run away if they ever went back to them today - trust me!! hehehe

Bred over 25,000 cows with those things -- holy crud -- HOW DID I SURVIVE!!!???

Terry

 

[CAB]

  I'm like you also JIT, I can't seem to throw away old semen and every year use a straw just just finish up late and am always hoping for a heifer, but seem to get steers.Even the bulls that were popular 10-15 years ago are fun to see how fast the styles or needs change. We have been feeding out all of our cattle so we get to see them finish out, boy have the frame scores gotten smaller. I think that here, @ least the bulls that I was using 15 years ago can out do today's cattle as far as growth and gain. Still have amps in my tank.

 

[Marcie]

Hello,
I am new to this forum, actually any forum.  We have some Red Angus Choctaw Chief 373 semen in ampules, but do not know anyone who has worked with them.  Looking for someone who might be interested in splitting them and AI'ing them in a half dozen cows.  It seems that Cowboy and Jenny have had a ton of experience.  We are located in North Central Nebraska.  Any takers?

 

[cbcr]

I am right there with you COWBOY.  I took my AI training at Midwest Breeders in Springfield Missouri.  Bred lots of cows with the magic wand.

When it came to ampules, I had one dairyman who most of the time bred his own cows, but about once a month he would call me because he had at least 2 cows in heat and wanted to split an ampule between them.  Had excellent conception.  I remember one time he had 4 cows that we split an ampule on.

I guess al of this tells the age of some of us, but I don't feel that old.

Just goes to show how much the industry has changed!

 

[Shorthorn-Fed]

I am right there with you COWBOY.  I took my AI training at Midwest Breeders in Springfield Missouri.  Bred lots of cows with the magic wand.

When it came to ampules, I had one dairyman who most of the time bred his own cows, but about once a month he would call me because he had at least 2 cows in heat and wanted to split an ampule between them.  Had excellent conception.  I remember one time he had 4 cows that we split an ampule on.

I guess al of this tells the age of some of us, but I don't feel that old.

Just goes to show how much the industry has changed!

We have had very good luck splitting amps. Our tech’s have always used a syringe and a pipette on ampules. If the semen isn’t rare we do use the whole amp for a cow though.


Russ