How to breed to get big soggy cows!!

[Railway cattle]

It seams that all of these cluby bulls throw short compacted heifers that never mature into nice soggy well kept cows. What can I do to get my big framed lengthy well keeping cows back?

 

[Gargan]

Breed to OCC or Duff  Angus bulls!

 

[HAB]

What frame score are you wanting to get back to, or do you just want longer bodied, big bellied females?

 

[DakotaCow]

In short, stop keeping replacements out of clubby bulls. Longer answer use bulls that are PROVEN to make good functional females. This method may.....dare I say.....involve not using the new popular and quite unproven bull.

 

[rtmcc]

In short, stop keeping replacements out of clubby bulls. Longer answer use bulls that are PROVEN to make good functional females. This method may.....dare I say.....involve not using the new popular and quite unproven bull.

EXACTLY!!!
I resisted posting on this but ...
Clubby bulls are bread and designed to make a market animal.  The end Product.  The TERMINAL end product.
If you want big high performing females that are big deep middled and milk and will raise a calf and not shiver away next to the round bale feeder waiting for a bucket all winter you need to breed to BREEDING STOCK BULLS.
It's that simple.
Ron
<cowboy> <rock>

 

[HAB]

In short, stop keeping replacements out of clubby bulls. Longer answer use bulls that are PROVEN to make good functional females. This method may.....dare I say.....involve not using the new popular and quite unproven bull.

EXACTLY!!!
I resisted posting on this but ...
Clubby bulls are bread and designed to make a market animal.  The end Product.  The TERMINAL end product.
If you want big high performing females that are big deep middled and milk and will raise a calf and not shiver away next to the round bale feeder waiting for a bucket all winter you need to breed to BREEDING STOCK BULLS.
It's that simple.
Ron
<cowboy> <rock>

<beer>

 

[diamonddls]

Canadian bulls  or breeding stock proven sires rather than terminal type show bulls. In my experience a bull that look bulls rather than steers make hfrs that grow into cows.

 

[ferkj]

Use Maine simmi or Angus bulls. You'll get the kind of heifer calves that grow into the kind of cows you're asking for. Breed those cows to clubby bulls if u want show calves. JMO

 

[Freddy]

THE key word  is deciding which sires or breed you want to use .....CLUBBY'S have these type cows too, Carnac cow's have sure done this for me as well as one of his son's ....Their are some ANGUS blood lines worst than most clubby's ........

 

[shortybreeder]

Canadian Shorthorn bulls  or breeding stock proven sires rather than terminal type show bulls. In my experience a bull that look bulls rather than steers make hfrs that grow into cows.

 

[RyanChandler]

What can I do to get my big framed, lengthy, well keeping cows back?

yea, those characteristics are antagonistic.  I know I prefer the looks of a bigger cow than can realistically sustain herself at my place. Therefore, I have to accept the type my environment will provide for and go from there. 

 

[OH Breeder]

It seams that all of these cluby bulls throw short compacted heifers that never mature into nice soggy well kept cows. What can I do to get my big framed lengthy well keeping cows back?

I think for xx bred bulls to be consistent is an oxymoron in itself. They are not bred to be consistent but terminal. To try to regain predicatability you should go back to bulls that are purebred to start building females. Reserach bulls from the various breeds that do what you want them to do make females. Ultra masculine bulls produce feminie females. There are several options, but you have to look at your cow base first to see if breeding from what you have will get you what you want. The females you have may not produce the type and kind you seek. You may have to sacrifice a few to get the female base started unless you can find that bull that clicks with you cows. I am happy with my shorthorn based females using Maine bulls back on them. Adds little bone, definitely some rear quarter and have not had any calving issues (thank you Lord) thus far. Go through your females bloodlines see how you can produce matings that will give you what you are after. I think there are bulls in several breeds that can accomplish what you are trying to do. it just depends on your female base.

 

[SEA]

OK  Now that everyone is done stating the given fact of...Do not use clubby bulls to make replacement females.  Some folks mention to use Angus, or Simm, or Maine, or Shorthorn.  However, this is not enough. I believe is more the individual bull not the PB or Crossbred that matters.  IMHO: Our original poster wanted to 1) Increase frame size.  2) Add length.  3) Add depth of body & rib.  4) Add fleshing ability.  5) I assume add milk.

Angus:  Ohllde or Duff-Most (not all) of these bulls are smaller framed and shorter made.  Some do not have allot of performance.
Simm:  Some Simm genetics i.e. Meyer 734, do not milk well nor are easy fleshing or deep middled. 
Maine:  Some Maine genetics are shallow bodied, do not milk well, large big boned calves and are hard doing.
Shorthorn:  Clubby Shorthorn genetics, TH, Huge Calves, no milk.

How about instead we all list names of PROVEN bulls (whatever breed or crossbred) that will accomplish the goals set forth by our poster and make good females?

1.)  Add length of body.
2.)  Add belly, depth of body & rib.
3.)  Add some frame.  (Not little puds, but not behemouths).
4.)  Add fleshing ability.
5.)  Add some maternal traits i.e. milk, udder design and teat shape.

NOW LETS NOMINATE YOUR BULLS THAT MEET THESE CRITERIA.

Please keep in mind that many bulls will only accomplish several of these traits and not ALL.  So, try not to BASH our fellow posters whom nominate a bull that may not excel at all traits.

LETS TRY TO MAKE THIS FUN!  (pop)

 

[HAB]

I'll bite and do a little self promotion at the same time.  <party>

Moto Moto will do many of the things you listed.  Full blood, maternally bred bull with lots of length, depth, rib, and muscling.  Low birth weight to boot.

Pictured as a three year old.

 

[knabe]

Females out of clubby bulls are used to sell to people who are starting out as they are being fed the lie they can beat the system by people who always tell them the story about the one cow that did and they only need to spend more money.


Then when they run out of time to breed them on their own and have a train wreck, but still need an animal for the last year or two their kid is in 4h, lo and behold, those same people will show up with a female to sell them that is not bred that way for even more money.


It's sort of funny really.


It's sort of like pay $100,000 for a victim studies major and finding out there is no job except teaching victim studies or a lawyer or politician.


Personally, the clubby world people I respect the most are chambers and kris black. They will know what to do. 

 

[knabe]

It seams that all of these cluby bulls throw short compacted heifers that never mature into nice soggy well kept cows. What can I do to get my big framed lengthy well keeping cows back?

Alternate calving seasons?

 

[librarian]

Nomination: Connealy Thunder
Calved 01/28/05 • AAA #15148659[AMF-CAF-DDF-M1F-NHF-RDF]
http://www.sitzangus.com/herdsires/ConnealyThunder.html
A few years ago I bought an orphan heifer sired by him. She grew up to be super soggy and passed it on to her daughters and they passed it on to their sons. I crossed her to Galloway and then crossed those to Shorthorn and they were all built just the same way, no matter the sire.
Down side: her udder was ok, very milky, but didn't hold up over the years. Always weaned the heaviest calf. Daughters had good udders. I would call her moderate, not big.
Ironically, Bando 598 is the mgs.

 

[b_kackley]

Thunder is a good angus reccomendation. I reccommend Nichols Legacy G151 he is an older simmental bull. His females in my opinion are some of the best out there. The only thing I would fault him on is that his offspring are a little trashy fronted. His daughters milk, have guts, and are long spined. He just plain makes good cows.

 

[Dale L]

Simm-Ebonys Grandmaster should give you length and middle.  May not add enough frame though.  I don't know what frame score you are looking to get.  I also like the Upgrades I have seen.