I need help with the "New Shortie Math".

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NHR

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kanshow said:
Wasn't there originally a milking/dual purpose Shorthorn?  If so, what has become of that? 

The Shorthorns that milked good went with the Milking Shorthorn Assoc while the Shorthorns that had better meat characteristics went into the American Shorthorn Association. Originally they were both in the same herd book. You can still dual register any Shorthorn.
 

shortdawg

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There are Beef Shorthorns and Milking Shorthorns. Someone who has been in the Shorthorn business longer than I have can tell you the story there. I think there are two different herdbooks and some in both ????????
 

linnettejane

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i used a purebred red maine bull last year(th and pha free, by the way)....had him registered 3/4 shorthorn, used him on my purebred shorthorn cows...and this year i have double registered calves....they have 7/8 shorthorn plus papers as well as maintainter papers....im going to keep the heifers, breed them 100% shorthorn, and have 100% short calves out of them.....i like the hybrid vigor this throws in....as well as it being a way to get some fresh and clean genetics....(something other than a stuff or trump)

 

Show Heifer

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Linnettejane - what is the pedigree of your red maine bull? If you don't want to put on SP could you PM me?  Just curious.

And your 7/8 calves were appendix, oops, I mean shorthorn plus??
 

aj

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|I know that in the late 70's people used the milking shorthorns to increase frame size. I think a board decesion was made to allow them. I know HUBS shorthorns became very popular at this time along I think Haumonts. Steve Wasburn still runs the cows and they are linebred at HUBS shorthorns. I don't think they ever incorporated any maines. Seemed like they were more horned than I liked. It is a herd that didn't chase fads and had a disiplined breeding program.
 

garybob

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I was n't goood at Algebra, but here's my problem with Shorthorn Math.  +9 + 125=a dead calf + a crippled cow.

Go back to 88 lb bull calves and 70-80lb heifer calves that grow into 1800-lb bulls and 1250-lb cows. That should be anyone's benchmark. Best Shorthorn bull I had was Oaklawn Dreamworks*. Was a soggy little 1800lb bull who I NEVER TOUCHED any of his offspring, until vaccination time. You couldn't catch 'em when they were about 6 hours old, running, active little cusses.

GB

p.s.  Oh, yeah, he was solid red & darkened up every cow I put him across, even Gelbviehs and Brafords. Took away diluters, spots, and brindles. He was horned, though.
 

NHR

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garybob said:
I was n't goood at Algebra, but here's my problem with Shorthorn Math.  +9 + 125=a dead calf + a crippled cow.

Go back to 88 lb bull calves and 70-80lb heifer calves that grow into 1800-lb bulls and 1250-lb cows. That should be anyone's benchmark. Best Shorthorn bull I had was Oaklawn Dreamworks*. Was a soggy little 1800lb bull who I NEVER TOUCHED any of his offspring, until vaccination time. You couldn't catch 'em when they were about 6 hours old, running, active little cusses.

GB

p.s.  Oh, yeah, he was solid red & darkened up every cow I put him across, even Gelbviehs and Brafords. Took away diluters, spots, and brindles. He was horned, though.

I already have gone to the 85lb average calf. But I also want my bulls to be between 6.5 - 7.0 frame score and my cows to be between 6.0 and 6.5 frame score. A frame score 5 bull just is not going to cut it in the commercial bull business around here. For some folks smaller frame works and for some larger frame works. I know garybob wants frame score 5 which is what works for him.

I also need my bulls and cows to be easy fleshing because I dont have money or time to be feeding them. Everything that I have meets these requirements for my operation. Even in Angus you will find fluctations between different ranches and parts of the country. There are several Angus bulls that produce 100lb + calves. In Charlois it is not uncommon to get 125lb + calves. My goal is to stay in the middle of the pack and avoid the extremes. A 50lb calf just wont weigh enough to make any money and a 125lb monster just might not make it out alive, either way I lose money. I can take a 90lb calf all day long as long as it is built right to be easily calved. It is alot easier to make money when you already have a 40lb headstart. We always consider calving ease in conjunction with birthweights.
 

knabe

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DL said:
Mancelle cattle were crossed with what were called Durham (turned out they were Shorthorn) in the 1800s. Maines are the largest of the French beef breeds and are considered dual purpose (milk and meat) - I am not aware that they are considered a draft breed.

i found the reference for mancelle's being a working breed as well.  it's in cattle and dairy farming,page 727 where it mentions mancelle's are an offshoot of the parthenaise group of cattle.

The Parthenaise breed and its offshoots.

the parthenaise breed andits derivatives( vendeenne, nantaise, and mancelle breeds) constitute the horned stock of the department of deux-sevres, vendee, and lorie inferieure, and a great portion of those of maine-et-loire, vienne, indre-et-loire, and charente-inferieure.

this family, which the breeders consider as a pure race, is regarded by zoologists as the produce of a cross with animals of different swiss breeds. thus in the mancell cattle, we recognize the characters of the great bernoise and fribourgeoise breeds, and in the parthenaise and nantaise beasts those of the schwitz breed.

the whole of the parthenaise group proper has the fixed characteristic of black external mucous membranes, surrounded by a badger-cray circle.  in the others this mark varies with the tint of the hair surrounding them.  at the same time the mixture of foreign blood has not been introduced to such an extent as to modify the shape of the animals which remains entirely that of a french breed.

the parthenaise cattle combine the three gaculties so desirable to be united in a breed: working power, facility of fattening, and good milking qualities.

animals belonging to this family are distinguishable by their light bony frame, their graceful, well proportioned body, small head with broad flat flrehead, and handsome welll directed horns which are always brilliantly black.  the eye is well placed, animated in expression, and the gereral aspect docile.

the oxen are capital workers, and when fattened their meat is considered second to none on the paris market where it is known as chollet beef.

the cows are good milkers, and are used exclusively for milk production never being put to draught work.  on the rich pastures of loire, along the coast from loire to charente, cows of this breed are often met with, which can hold their own as milkers with the finest animal known.
 

OH Breeder

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AND don't forget...

Regardless of percentage if they are black they can never go higher than 50% shortie same goes for the Maines in the shortie book.
 
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