If I could start all over again I would......?

[caledon101]

As progressive, forward moving producers we all focus on the future of course. But, I do think it would be very interesting to hear what each of us would do differently if we had the opportunity to "do it all over again".
Potential new breeders could definitely learn from your collective experience and advice.
Would you invest in the same breed?
Would you have selected different foundation stock? If so, why?
Perhaps you would have invested in commercial livestock instead of purebred....or vice versa?
Maybe you would have by-passed livestock production all together and invested your money and time in crop production instead?

I am presently in the unique process of "doing it all over again". I will certainly share some details on that along with my own observations but look forward to others posting their thoughts as well.

 

[justintime]

If I could go back and do it all again, I am sure there are several things that I would have done differently, but hopefully I would have ended up doing what I am now. I think everyone has to make decisions through their lifetime in which direction they will go. I know I had a few of those decisions and I occasionally wonder where I would have ended up if I had chose differently and went left instead of right. When I was in my last year of college, I was offered a job with a large cattle marketer and they told me if I took the job, I would be trained to become a cattle buyer and a Manager in their business. I turned it down. On another occasion, I worked a dispersal of a well known operation. They are still in business and are a well recognized herd around the world. After a very successful dispersal, the owner told me that if he had known that the cattle he had dispersed were this valuable, he would have purchased the farm across the road that was for sale, and he would have asked me to move there and manage it. I have often wondered where I would have ended up if I had taken some of these turns in the road of life.
All in all, I would do most things I have done, but I would probably change the order in which I did some of them. I have had the opportunity to change breeds on many occasions, as we have had 7 different breeds of purebreds here along with our Shorthorns, but we dispersed every herd and have only had the Shorthorns now for the last 24 years. It has been a very tough road, but in many respects I think I appreciate everything more when the road has been rough and longer. I could write a very big book on the hardships we have gone through, which at the time seemed to be monumental and impossible. It certainly has not been an easy road, but when I consider everything, it has been a very fulfilling life. I am still my own boss and I am responsible for  my successes and failures... just the way I would want it to be.

 

[aj]

I was exposed to Red Angus around 1980......I thought about starting a Red Angus herd along with my Shorthorns......but I didn't. Wish I would have.....or at least incorporated them in the Shorthorn appendix program......that I guess started about 1973.

 

[Till-Hill]

I would have bought some name brand donor's and started from there instead of grading up my commercial cows to go the Simmental route. Although it gives me and my wife a great sense of pride looking out at what we are building and someday hope to reach a few of the goals we have set.

Biggest thing I would have liked to change is when I was younger using some of the cows I started with as cash to pay bills. If I would have fought a little harder to keep them I think I would be a little farther ahead. Now it is very hard for me to let a female go so I don't have that what if feeling.

 

[Warrior10]

Main thing I would have changed is I wish I would have been more picky with buying females. I have managed to get to where I want now, but there were some that I just shouldn't have bought in the first place, whether that be because they were THC's, Clubby on Clubby, terminal sired, etc. Anyone starting up, be picky and take your time.

 

[stkrdge]

should have kept 1/4 interest on Monopoly!

 

[caledon101]

We were breeding horned fullblood Simmentals back in the 80' and early 90's. We were focused on fullbloods because they generally presented more market value compared to the purebred segment. But, even then it was evident that purebreds were better cattle than many of the fullblood animals we were working with. It was becoming obvious in the show ring also.
So, if I could do it over again I might have gone against the flow and put my total emphasis on polled purebreds.
One thing I would never change is the investment I made in travel across the country to visit many breeding establishments. What a tremendous learning opportunity it was and continues to be. It was just great to visit breeders who were relatively unknown and stumble into wonderful breeding programs and conversely, it was sometimes disappointing to visit highly promoted herds and witness a program that failed to live up to their advertising.
Even the places that didn't have cattle of interest to me were worth touring. The opportunity to meet a diverse assortment of breeders was always educational. And, I commonly asked the question "if you could start over again what would you do differently?" The one common answer I usually heard was "I would have started with better seed stock on day one and shortened up the upgrading process"....or similar expressions to that effect.

 

[Steve123]

I never would have borrowed any money to buy cattle and I never would have gone into a partnership with "no possession".

 

[savaged]

I would not purchase any open show heifers, at the peak of their market value, to later use as breeding stock.  I'd use the same money to buy bred heifers and young cows with an emphasis on purebred and high percentage animals.  Amazing how much more value potential there is when you aren't  competing with folks looking to buy their show calf.

 

[justintime]

I would not purchase any open show heifers, at the peak of their market value, to later use as breeding stock.  I'd use the same money to buy bred heifers and young cows with an emphasis on purebred and high percentage animals.  Amazing how much more value potential there is when you aren't  competing with folks looking to buy their show calf.

I agree 100% with savaged. I am always amazed when I goes to sales and see a pair come in the ring, and the heifer calf will sell for several times what the mother does, even when the cow is bred the same way again. I can understand this, if the buyers are looking for show heifers, but I see this all the time even at sales where people are just looking for replacement females. I  have seen this thousands of times and it still strikes me as an amazing thing.  Several years ago, I attended a dispersal and found a 14 year old cow that was about 3 months from calving. I felt that she was one of the best brood cows I had seen in years and I wondered if she was carrying a heifer calf. When she came into the sale ring, I was able to buy her on one bid, and while I knew I was gambling, I also thought that there was a good chance I could get a good heifer calf. I was lucky as I got 2 heifer calves from her and this cow family is still one of my best female lines. That was almost 30 years ago, so that original small investment was one of my best ever.

 

[caledon101]

Steve123 & Savaged.....I think you make some excellent points. My opinion is that borrowing money to buy cattle is unwise unless you can afford to lose it all. But, if you respect your investment as a business decision with a clear set of time sensitive goals and spend the borrowed funds responsibly then it's not much different than any other business venture.
To me, "no possession" as an auction sale condition usually means "I can't part with my animal but unfortunately I need your money". There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a partner but when you sell a partial interest via public auction you are literally inviting anyone and everyone to be your partner. It's obviously not a good partner the seller is seeking; it's money.
Same thing with reserving flush rights. Especially mature donor females that have been flushed many times by a seller who already owns an embryo inventory and progeny on that female. It makes me ask the question; do they REALLY need to have continued future access? Of course all of these conditions are clearly stated prior to the auction and people have the free choice to buy or not to buy.

In our re-start up we have invested in open, calendar year calves and cow/calf pair ready for ET. I suppose the ideal scenario is to buy perfect uddered, proven 2 year olds with an amazing heifer calf at side. And of course the 2 year old is bred back to calve within 365 days....with sexed semen of course!
Our position is to buy only the very best individuals and genetics; that is the key priority. If that happens to be a weaned calf....so be it. It's a longer term project but that's factored in also.


Savaged.....I agree! It gets really expensive bidding against rich parents who are determined to buy show calves for their kids. It's something we are very concious of and avoid. Not always easy though to identify calves of high genetic merit and quality without having to compete against the show crowd. But, it is definitely possible.

 

[caledon101]

JIT.....how many times have we witnessed females with young heifer calves at side sell for less money than the breds of equal age and quality? If defies logic and good business sense. Bidders and buyers deliberately choose the path of added risk.

 

[justintime]

I refer to buying into an animal with no possession as buying petting rights. I only consider this if I am wanting some semen to use from a sire. I am wondering why so many people retain an option to a flush in some of their females? I know lots of people who will not even consider bidding on a female if a flush is retained by the seller. I am sure they have a wide variety of reasons for this, but I am beginning to believe it is a detriment to most breeders to do this.  I had a situation a couple years ago, when attending a sale and getting a phone bid of $10,000 on a female. A few minutes later, this person phoned me back and said they had decided NOT to bid on this female as the owner was retaining a flush at the buyers convenience. I tried to explain what this meant but the guy said he wasn't interested in any female where he could not own her entirely. I then asked the seller if he would consider selling the female without keeping the flush option, and told him I had a potential bidder who would not bid if the flush option was retained by the seller.( I did not tell the seller what this guy had originally gave as a bid). The seller decided that he wanted to keep the flush interest and the potential bidder would not budge. I never bid on this female and she sold for $4900.... and to date I do not think the seller has ever flushed her.

I think most sellers to this to emphasize how much they like the female they are selling, but it is a real turn off to many potential buyers. I would suggest that if you really like the female, buy her back after a few years, or buy a daughter. Lots of potential ways to bring the genetics back to your herd.

Partnerships can work OK but my experience is that a partner is only real good when there is a loss involved. You better know what you are getting into and have everything in writing regardless if the partner is your best friend or a family member. It is amazing how the memory fades after a short period of time!

 

[caledon101]

Wise to pick your partners in a private treaty purchase than to literally invite the whole world in a public auction.
I have previously shared ET rights on females but only via private purchase.

I won't bid on anything that has strings attached.
We only want the best foundation stock for our new modest sized program. Just checking the details of an online sale starting tomorrow and I see the best one in the line up comes with ET conditions. I would rather simply pass on her than contact the seller and try to negotiate. It's their heifer; I absolutely respect that and, I am not comfortable asking for any changes on how they wish to market her.

We bought the high selling open heifer at the Janssen sale last Sunday along with a high seller from the Silvertowne sale in September. Neither female had any strings attached or conditions. They sold them outright.
It's a slow process to build the program but we are drawing upon our collective past experience to do things right.

 

[BogartBlondes]

If I could change one thing it would be that I would have focused more on purchasing show stock. In the beginning, they were just cows producing stocker calves. Now I've had to cull a lot and lose some investment to get where I want to be.

 

[BLRanch]

I'm very interested in this topic as I'm basically just starting out. I completely agree that there is more value in bred heifers rather than opens. But I was wondering what everyone thought about purchasing embryos in their hindsight? Do any of you wish that you would have invested in more embryos to increase genetic diversity and hopefully quality or would that be more of a risk?

 

[OH Breeder]

Would you invest in the same breed?

Have had shorthorns all our lives. I really enjoy calving time. Colors are like Christmas and I am always excited to see what we will get. If I could have infused something into my herd, it would have been some Herefords. We do'nt own a one. But I like the cross I have seen Herf x Shorthorn. Will alway have shorthorns.

Would you have selected different foundation stock? If so, why?

I am really pleased with what we have. some old bloodlines mixed with some newer breeding. Really like my Ohlde bull. No worries with calving and they are easy feeders. I would have probably started sooner with those style of genetics instead of following the show ring trend.

Perhaps you would have invested in commercial livestock instead of purebred....or vice versa?

Like my purebred base so I can use Clubby bulls on some of them. I get little more predictability.

Maybe you would have by-passed livestock production all together and invested your money and time in crop production instead?

I wish I could invest more time and money into livestock production. The feeling you get from it is very rewarding when you see those newborn calves every year. Has it made me rich NO, could i have bought some nice things instead of cattle YES. But it makes my core happy.


One thing I have learned in my short time on this earth ( I say short time, cuz I think 44 is young) never regret. Make a decision if it turns out bad learn from it. Its sad and you should regret making the very same mistake twice and have learned nothing. Keep looking forward and learn from you past. I hear people say that all the time. Do you have any regrets? not any more....life has taught me quiet a few lessons and they weren't alway easy.
None of my coworkers understand my "investment". I guess you wouldn't if you had no love for it. Take time out now and then. Your body is a temple and if you don't maintain it the foundation will crack and it will fall.

 

[BTDT]

1. Not give anyone a second chance. Screw me once, shame on you, Screw me twice, shame on me.....
2. Follow my gut feeling - it is usually right
3. Never look back - yes, you might learn from the past, but you will also hit more walls in front of you.
4. Do not hold back tears
5. Forgive yourself before you forgive others.

I realize these may not appear to be cattle related, but trust me, they are.  I have never been one to follow the crowd, nor do I chase purple ribbons. So I have pretty much made the "right" decisions for me at the time knowing what I did at the time. 

I am amazed at the number of people who try and re-invent themselves; after bankruptcy, after a divorce, after a death of a close one.  They try and hide from everyone who knew them "then" but in the end, they are only hiding from themselves. The "real" person is who they were first, not the "new and improved" fake. 

To name one cattle specific "start over" - I would take more photographs so I could visually trace back all my cattle. Mental images change over time, and it would be interesting to see where it all started and where it all ended up.

 

[r.n.reed]

I am satisfied with the way I started given my resources at the time.I started with 2 foundation cows and everything in my herd today goes back to them in most cases many times.In turn those foundation cows were linebred to the foundation cattle their breeders had started with in the 1920s.
I would like a do over on most everything I did from 1992 to 1999 genetic wise.
I also wish I would have bought a flap hat 40 years ago.

 

[caledon101]

I think it's our drive to continously improve that sometimes makes us look back and wish we had done this or that differently. Human nature! But it's our eternal optimism that keeps up going. It sure isn't the profit we all make.

Looking back I learned that there are no 'bad" breeds of cattle. They are all different and each breed works better in some environments than others. Every breed has attributes and qualities regardless of their popularity or lack thereof. We all think we have the best breed but the huge diversity of breeds and genetics is something should all celebrate.

I do recall asking a highly respected and knowledgable cattleman a direct question about 30 years ago while visiting his ranch. He was the producer of the original Angus bull QAS Traveller.
I asked him what he liked the most about the purebred cattle business. He said "the people".
I then asked him what he liked the least about the purebred cattle business.
He said "SOME people".
Never forgot that.