Inbred cattle?

[ctroidl]

I don't think anyone would argue that in the club calf industry there isn't a lot of variation in desired genetics.
If you go on cattle visions for example and scroll through the bulls probably about 65% of them relate back to heat seeker. My question is; wouldn't there be a lot of interbreeding among club calf producers? I have seen interbreeding but it usually goes back 3or4 generations. Is it alright to do that?

Take Rodgers bull Nice and Easy for example, his sire is i80 which dates back to Ali and his dam is sired by Rocky Balboa who also dates back to Ali.

Any comments would be great.

 

[cowman 52]

These guys wouldn't care if he came out with 3 heads, 4 pair of legs and a mouth 10 foot wide, they would be talking about how much he could eat, how great he traveled, and how up headed he is. If you can sell it, charge on.  All those heifer mates that wind up in the sale barn are just a tank of fuel and a bag of feed.  The problem is the next guys.

 

[knabe]

i know where this thread is going.

 

[BTDT]

I was always told that if it resulted in a good calf, then it was linebreeding.
If the result is a mongloid, deformed, or performed poorly, then it is called inbreeding.

Inbreeding/linebreeding is a double edge sword. Yes, you concentrate the "good" traits, meaning genetics, but you also concentrate the "bad" genetics. The results from inbreeding/linebreeding is a roll of the dice and will definately take the unknowns out of a pedigree.
The farther back in the pedigree the "similiar/same" genetics are, the less chance you have at a "mistake", but you also decrease the chance of doubling up on the good traits.

To answer your question, it is widely done in the livestock industry to try and focus the "good" genetics into one super animal. And, it would probably be accepted more if the "mistakes" were not admitted to, and then disposed of, instead of being passed off to an unknowing buyer because of it's "great" pedigree.

Keep in mind how different full siblings are, even in humans.  I know of a bull that was a flush calf of 5. The other calves would not have made good feedlot steers, and one was so "deformed" that it died in the pasture before it hit 30 days. Yet the "good one" was sold for upper 5 figures and is now in semen catalogs. 

I guess you have to ask yourself if you are trying to produce the one "great one" or if you are trying to produce 100 good ones.

 

[Okotoks]

By keeping the common ancestors that have worked in the clubby industry repeating in the pedigree the chance of reproducing the desired type should increase. Linebreeding/inbreeding does not always work but neither do outcrosses always work. In our program we always have  some matings that involve linebreeding as well we introduce new bloodlines that we hope will give us the desired type as well. Below is a pedigree of a yearling heifer Jaimie has that is "linebred" and she is a good advertisement for when it works! I will have to get a photo of her next trip to the heifer pasture.

http://www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/extended_pedigree.cgi?_breedcode=MS&_countrycode=CAN&_regnumberprefix=F&_regnumber=690532&_regnumbersuffix=&_association=21&_generations=12

 

[ctroidl]

Alright thanks for the comments, I wasn't entirely sure if the resulting offspring would possibly be defected in some way. From what I now understand this line breeding is fairly common and the offspring usually turnout ok. Is that correct?

 

[knabe]

check out these inbred cattle.

http://www.chillinghamwildcattle.com

 

[KSanburg]

L1 Bred herefords are supposed to be some of the best maternal herefords you can buy, while there are some great cattle with in the L1 breeding they also have their own problems, but what line of cattle doesn't have some issues rather they are herefords, clubbies, angus or what ever you choose. I guess this is one of those areas that it takes years and years of education in pedigree's and cow sense that makes a lot of difference. Not that you cannot line breed cattle and not be successful but visiting with someone before you make a mating decision may be in your best interest. But unless you have all of the facts about your cattle you can still end up in a crap shoot, and there is no recorded data system for clubby bred cattle.

I don't mean to scare you off from breeding your animals to whatever you want, but keep in mind that there are lots of cattle sold that have no record of their exact parentage. A real tight line breeding of heat wave might be disastrous.

So just be cautious and have your favorite vet's phone number on speed dial.

 

[crushertown]

Lmao. Line breeding club calf bulls. I think you could breed a bull like heat seeker back to his daughters or granddaughters three times and still don't think his pedigree would get it tight enough. And that's the way with 99% of the clubby bulls.

 

[cowman 52]

Laugh on, in only works when the pedigree was 360 degrees off to start with. Like a large part of them are.
I think the old saying was" out of Mexico by truck."

 

[Okotoks]

Here is a bull from the Haumont shorthorn herd that is the result of a bull that was a maternal sibling mating being bred back to his dam. In this case this is a very closely related herd.
x4015461 DNA-N C C CHIEF COMMAND 99
  x4045450 DNA-N PROMISE A CHIEF 01
              x4015467 DNA-N MAID OF PROMISE MLW 22ND
  Sire:x4132285 DNA-N PROMISE A PROMISE '07
              x3966956 PHA-F TH-F DNA-Y COMMANDER IN CHIEF 96
  x4058643 DNA-N MAID OF PROMISE H 201ST
              x4015467 DNA-N MAID OF PROMISE MLW 22ND
PROMISE A PROMISE 2101
              x3540863 DNA-N MEADOWBROOK CHIEFTAIN 9TH
  x3966956 PHA-F TH-F DNA-Y COMMANDER IN CHIEF 96
              x3855794 DNA-N CHERRY BLOSSOM H 97TH
  Dam: x4058643 DNA-N MAID OF PROMISE H 201ST
              x3919744 DNA-N CLARA'S MARSHALL 93
  x4015467 DNA-N MAID OF PROMISE MLW 22ND
              x3872378 DNA-N MAID OF PROMISE MLW 7TH

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

The problem is not the inbreeding tool. The problem are the animals used for produce the inbreeding homozigosity. If you select and use a good and profitable bull for pass these characteristics to progeny and fix the character, OK. But if you use a "fashionable" bull that is only a NAME and not a real improver, you will find a bad end. Some Club Calfs are not a good way to inbreed as they are crosses, so these characteristics diluted through genes segregation easily on first matings. They are the opposite hand - the heterosis.
I like inbreeding mating system and use it when possible. But I'm aware that if mating not show my goal, it will deliberate put off.

 

[rackranch]

Line breeding is done in a lot of major species of animals to produce superior genetics.  Cattle, poultry, sheep, goats and sporting animals such as horses and dogs.  Very popular with all breeders to enhance certain traits or genetics.  Not just those sorry ol show steer people.  Oh and how much line breeding actually takes place in many commercial heard across the country???

 

[RyanChandler]

Most commercial herds are crossbreds. Foolish to try and linebreed crossbreds.  Using linebred bulls over f1 cows of different breeds is as near optimal as one can get.