Info on some more old shorthorn bulls

[Endless Meadows]

the other day I stumbled across some pictures of some older shorthorn bulls on the internet.  I was curious if anyone can remember if any of the bulls ever had semen collected.  Some of the bulls I was wondering about include:

Goltho Signal 3rd
Boa Kae Royal Mint
Alice Downs Supreme 27th
Four Point Royal 13th - I know he was collected, does anyone know what his calves were like
Butte Lee Apache 26th

 

[Okotoks]

the other day I stumbled across some pictures of some older shorthorn bulls on the internet.  I was curious if anyone can remember if any of the bulls ever had semen collected.  Some of the bulls I was wondering about include:

Goltho Signal 3rd
Boa Kae Royal Mint
Alice Downs Supreme 27th
Four Point Royal 13th - I know he was collected, does anyone know what his calves were like
Butte Lee Apache 26th

Goltho Signal 3rd  was collected in Canada
Boa Kae Royal Mint herd bull at Remitall and I believe he sold to the USA in one of their sales possibly to WLM, William Maclean, Washington.
Alice Downs Supreme 27th sire of Mandalong Super Flag. He was collected in Australia but semen would not be eligible for export. Appears he had a son born at Dunbecon out of Dunbeacon Venture's maternal sister in 2000.
Dunbeacon Supreme 
http://abri.une.edu.au/online/cgi-bin/i4.dll?1=313021&2=2420&3=56&5=2B3C2B3C3A&6=5C255B5A5822222F2D&9=5F525027
Four Point Royal 13th - I know he was collected, does anyone know what his calves were like. Hatfield has embryos out of Eionmor Lily 39S and we have a few vials left. He left some good daughters in his day!
Butte Lee Apache 26th Don't know if he was collected.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Goltho Signal is a Lincoln Red.

 

[kiblercattle]

I would be interested in seeing the pictures if you have them.

 

[Shorthorn-Fed]

Kieblercattle,the pictures are not great as they are from old Shorthorn Magazines but gives you an idea.
The Roan is Alice Downs Supreme 27th
The white is Boa Kae Royal Mint
The red/white is Butte Lee Apache 26th
The others have the name in the picture

 

[justintime]

I have semen from Goltho Signal 3rd in my tanks. He was a Lincoln Red bull  and at the time that he was imported into Canada, he was considered to be the best Lincoln Red bull that had been produced in England to that time. He was a big bull with lots of volume and he bred pretty well. Some of his offspring were a bit sloppy in their lower third. I also have semen from his son, Claydene Ever Reddy, who was Grand Champion Bull at Canadian Western Agribiton in 1977. Ever Reddy was a really good bull and he bred very well. He was more moderate framed that his sire, Signal 3rd and was cleaner made. He was tremendously thick as well. I saw Ever Reddy as a mature bull several times and I was always impressed with his fleshing ability and soundness. Every Reddy left some excellent calves from both sexes. His pedigree consisted of both Lincoln Red and Shorthorn bloodlines and this blend certainly worked well.

In regards to the other bulls, I do not remember semen being drawn on Butte Lee Apache 26th or Boa kae Royal Mint. There is still some semen around on Four Point Royal 13th. I have seen a few calves from him... moderate in every way, including size and performance. He was a good bull himself, but probably would have made a bigger splash if he had been born in a different era.

 

[librarian]

I think I remember Ever Reddy is some Poplar Park pedigrees... JIT, how do you think he would be most useful if used today? I'm interested in Lincoln Reds and what they contribute, good or otherwise.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

One of the alltime really good commercially oriented Shorthorn bulls who no longer (maybe) gets his due was Byland Dazzler-He was bred to a Lincoln Red Everready daughter by Gordon Brockmueller which produced GB Daybreak express.This bull was purchased by Werning Simmintals.and is still in use A-I 17-18 years later. He is available on SEK Genetics and got USED ALOT for years by clubby breeders because he was basically hiefer safe and thick;and his daughters made real good cows. Goddards club calf bull Real Deal is out of a daughter-for example.This would be an ideal bull to x breed with .JMO.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Many times photos not show the real bulls quality.
But, for me, the best Lincoln Red bulls were sent to South America, in special to Argentina.
Canada have some Lincoln Red bloodlines that are outcross for us, Signal would to useful here.

 

[Doc]

Our Hill Haven Distinction bull is out of a purebred Lincoln Red cow. We are really pleased with the calves we have gotten so far.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

Lincolns are a good outcross. Used widely here in South America (Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay).
Maine not worked here, old Maine Anjou genetics I'm talking.
Lincoln Red show one unique problem, ok....two problems. First and worst was the difficulty to some bulls shed on summer...really a problem, and after 2 or 3 generation with Shorthorn crosses on these females, they show problem to shed.
The second problem, and found on minor scale, was the teats size, sometimes so big that calf was not able to suck.

 

[beebe]

I am old school but I sure like the way Boa Kae Royal Mint is built.

 

[Cabanha Santa Isabel - BR]

I am old school but I sure like the way Boa Kae Royal Mint is built.

Agree, is my type too.
We need more bulls like it today.

 

[librarian]

I am old school but I sure like the way Boa Kae Royal Mint is built.

Agree, is my type too.
We need more bulls like it today.

He looks like a beefmaker, for sure. I wonder how far that fellow is standing behind him and how tall the bull really is. The picture is very interesting- they don't have straw piled up around his legs to make them look short...his brisket hangs much lower than his chest just behind the forelegs. Maybe its a shadow, but his nose looks dark and his hooves look dark. His horns really point forward.
The Mint in his name makes me wonder why and when Remitall was using the Mint name.
He's a neat bull, but difficult to categorize. Weren't the Carig animals large for the time?

 

[oakview]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Boa Kae bull was polled.  Remitall raised Choice Mint, but the Boa Kae bull and Remitall Choice Mint were not related unless it was very far back.  We used a son of Boa Kae White Tornado that we purchased from Miles Mann at Woodbine, Iowa, in the late 60's.  White Tornado won a show/sale in Canada, but I can't remember which one.  I believe he was brought to the States by Four Dees Farms in Illinois, Miles Mann partnered with them on some cattle.  White Tornado was sired by Boa Kae Royal Lancer and I believe he went back to Creekland Lancer or something like that.  I don't have time to look up his pedigree at the moment.  The Boa Kae cattle were probably larger framed than most of the US cattle of their time.  My favorite Boa Kae bull, at least from the pictures, was Boa Kae Royal Oak. 

 

[librarian]

Unless I'm mistaken, the Boa Kae bull was polled.  Remitall raised Choice Mint, but the Boa Kae bull and Remitall Choice Mint were not related unless it was very far back.  We used a son of Boa Kae White Tornado that we purchased from Miles Mann at Woodbine, Iowa, in the late 60's.  White Tornado won a show/sale in Canada, but I can't remember which one.  I believe he was brought to the States by Four Dees Farms in Illinois, Miles Mann partnered with them on some cattle.  White Tornado was sired by Boa Kae Royal Lancer and I believe he went back to Creekland Lancer or something like that.  I don't have time to look up his pedigree at the moment.  The Boa Kae cattle were probably larger framed than most of the US cattle of their time.  My favorite Boa Kae bull, at least from the pictures, was Boa Kae Royal Oak. 

Boa Kae Royal Oak and a son with Leader 21 mixed in. (from rlshorthorns)
Diamond K photo from
http://www.montanashorthornassociation.org/classifieds.html

 

[knabe]

Some of these older Bulls look nice.


What happened to take the butt and top off of them so marines were added to them to put it back in?

 

[Dale]

Long and tall with no acetol (sound it out) caused this to happen.  Without bashing any part of the Shorthorn breed (same thing works for Angus and Herefords), it developed when larger frame was the craze.  Long, tall, light-muscled critters were winning the ribbons and being promoted as "modern" while muscle was often overlooked.

I remember one breeder remarking that it was good that a certain bull had large ears, so that he was visible when viewed from behind.  During that time the breeding selections (and show ring placings) were all about going for the largest frame score.  Unfortunately muscle was not the only thing lost in the shuffle.  Sometimes correctness, disposition, fleshing ability, etc. also were sacrificed in the race to the top. 

"WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US.”  Pogo

 

[librarian]

Some of these older Bulls look nice.


What happened to take the butt and top off of them so marines were added to them to put it back in?

Knabe is that an autocorrect moment for Maines or just an apt description?
Looking thru older pictures for Royal Oak, I found an old favorite. To me, this is the kind of Shorthorn bull we have lost...same old formula- pour Scotch into Milk.

 

[3 Eagles shorthorns]

This is our herd bull, he is a grandson of Royal Oak.