Is Aging a new problem?

[jennamarie]

I feel as if I join a large group of people that have sat in the stands at more than a handful of shows and asked myself "How the heck did she get into this class, she looks like she's supposed to be a cow already." Birthdates are "backdated" in an effort to give yourself an advantage. It seems as if the show industry heats up and becomes more and more competitive this is becoming a way to get ahead. I'm working on a speech relating to the issue of the aging of heifers specifically.. Asking for how my fellow members feel on this issue and if you feel as if it is a real issue. Thanks in advance for your help!!

 

[CMANGUS]

yes it is appearing to become a issue.  It seems odd when a heifer of the same age doesn't have much of a tail ball and the rest of the class does and towers over the top of her.  I can see genetics playing a little part in cattle size but the thing with the ones that are being aged is you will probably get beat on size early but it will catch up and they will stale at the end and the ones that are not aged will continue to grow and in the end look fresher....Just my opinion for what it is worth.

 

[LLBUX]

Been a problem forever to the honest cattleman.

One fella I spoke to recently told me he is almost done with his March and April calves and is expecting his first May heifers late next week.

 

[jennamarie]

do you believe there's a way to solve this problem?

 

[shortyjock89]

Don't show babies. We rarely do, and are all the happier for it.

 

[Gargan]

Don't show babies. We rarely do, and are all the happier for it.

Exactly. Its easy to tell the puds at 1.5 yrs old

 

[knabe]

Same with little league, getting in bars etc

 

[mark tenenbaum]

LL Bux and Gargan hit it on the head along with Olson-I just dont see how some of these judges can keep a straight face-or thier credentials-when they speak in serious tones about the obvious dishonesty in front of them-I was at Denver once When GARY BUCHOLTZ DID JUST THE OPPOSITE-and every one but the owner(s) of the female was grinning O0

 

[diamonddls]

Its happened for years. We have a neighbor that only raises March/April born calves according to there spring sale listing each year. However I've been over to help them calve multiple cows around Christmas and see there herd bulls go out in April and back home by June each year. Makes his bulls look like better performers when selling them as yearlings. Although his customers often complain the calves don't meet their expectations when they hit ground. Seen it a lot as a kid in 4h shows as well when showing pairs.

 

[husker1]

Certainly one of my pet peeves, and has been going on as long as I can remember.  Crazy when an operation sells only spring heifers, but has a bunch of late fall/early winter born bulls....just doesn't add up.

I have come to the conclusion that we are in the minority when we report only actual birthdates.

There's an old adage to remember...."If you tell the truth always, you won't have to remember the facts that you lied about"!

Honesty is always the best policy, but the greed in the world gets in the way.

 

[Bradenh]

Come to texas, if you think it's bad where you are  (lol)

 

[Bradenh]

It's prevented by creating a breed standard of weights and measures like the Brahman exhibitors have done that you must pass to be eligible to show

 

[DLB]

It is AWFUL in Texas.  And the crazy thing...I've noticed over the past 2-3 years-the judges are blind to the fact they have a heifer that stands 6-8" taller then the rest of the class and out weighs them by 150-200lbs and they use her and talk her up. Then in division bury her cause she's stale or what not.  I'm new to the heifer deal in Texas.  I had a heifer last year stand 2nd at FW, SA, and Houston behind the same heifer that was aged.  Karma caught up with that family...by state show and nationals their heifer fell apart and was "sent to pasture" cause she didn't look the part of a yearling heifer anymore. 

 

[Bradenh]

That's because judges are hired to kiss kids asses and not to promote integrity in the industry for fear of hurting someone's feelings

It catches them all, everyone wonders why the calf classes have 30 and the bred classes have 5, that stale factor will bite you

Watch the calf division in the red angus show if you want to see it at it's worst

 

[mark tenenbaum]

Buckholtz said it something like this at Denver-"I was going to start the class with this big hiefer because of her "unbelievable mass and scale"-however when I asked the young lady what her due date was she said she didnt know-that might apply to other dates as well-thats why I moved her to the bottom of the class" (lol) O0

 

[vc]

We never did the heifer deal but as long as I have been visiting this site and showsteers before it, this was an issue that was discussed. Was not hard to see the differences in the cattle when I watched the heifer show though.
I figure that if you want to show heifers, your going to face it. If the judges would stop picking the biggest heifers and select the best heifer that was the appropriate size and weight for her age, I guess this is where some of the buds makes it confusing, they are the right size and weight for that age there just not that age.
If you are honest, age your heifer appropriately, take your lumps early, if she is good enough she'll rise to the top as the year goes on.
As far as Texas, I remember a specail on Texas high school football and holding back their boys in middle school so they would be a year older, bigger and stronger when they got to high school, even if they had a 4.0. If your going to do that for an edge, pretty easy to see them age a heifer as well.

 

[rackranch]

This needs to happen more often if the problem is to be fixed.

Buckholtz said it something like this at Denver-"I was going to start the class with this big hiefer because of her "unbelievable mass and scale"-however when I asked the young lady what her due date was she said she didnt know-that might apply to other dates as well-thats why I moved her to the bottom of the class" (lol) O0

 

[CJB]

Is Aging a new problem?

In a word, No. 

It's not a new problem at all.  If I were to guess, I'd venture that aging cattle has been around as long as there have been cattle shows and sales. 

 

[oakview]

Correct.  Not a new problem.  48 years in a row at the Iowa State Fair.  A discussion issue every year that I can remember. 

I do hate to see such a general condemnation of higher performing cattle, though.  There are cattle that are not shown in the correct class.  I won't argue that a bit.  There are, however, cattle that genuinely grow faster than others.  If you've got an animal with a yearling EPD of over +100, wouldn't you expect that animal to be significantly heavier than one with a yearling EPD of +10?  Throw in the 365 day a year pampering of many show cattle, all the feed additives, 24 hour a day hair care, plus who knows what else and it is no surprise to me that there is a wide disparity in a show calf line up. Some people just do a better job than others.  I certainly hope we haven't reached the point where every time someone has a bigger one than we do we blindly convict them of cheating.  I've been in classes where I had the biggest one and I've been in classes where I had the smallest one.  Sometimes by far.  I had a bull calf sired by Jam's Uh-Huh that was clearly the largest in his class every time he was shown.  As a calf and as an early spring yearling.  He was born at my place.  If he was off on his birth date, it would be news to me.  I would still recommend Uh-Huh as a true sire of performance if you want it.  As far as the smaller ones I've had in recent classes, well we did the best we could do.  I sold 5 spring steer calves to a neighbor this fall for him to feed out.  They averaged 720 pounds.  4 were sired by Big Jake and 1 was sired by my Kinnaber Leader 9th son.  Let's just say the Leader 9th grandson significantly lowered the average.  GENETICS!  Please don't condemn someone's show calf just because it's bigger than yours.  It happens, I know.  Just look around, pay attention, and you can pick out the people you trust.  Those are the ones to tie in to.  Show winners or not.

 

[BTDT]

Agree that it is a problem, but certainly not a new one. 
I show calves, sometimes do well, sometimes not.  But most of the time, I return and show them as breds.  Do much better then!  But it is a frustrating fact that most of the time those fancy little calves, never return the following year, and slip into oblivion never to be seen or heard of again. 
Same thing happens in the bull division.  How can a 6 mos old bull have a roached neck and a big scrotal measurement?  Again, many of those bulls never return.

But, if you pay attention, there are certain farms/families that repeatedly show calves and ONLY calves and NEVER an older animal... or better yet, never show a calf as a yearling or a yearling as a calf. 

One last thing..... isn't it funny that a lot of farms will never release calf photos at the time or few weeks post calving..... I guess they are at least smart enough not to leave evidence behind!!  (If you are facebook, you see this phenomenon!)