Is it just me?

[justintime]

Well, I for one made the little trip through Iowa a couple of years ago, and saw many of the big name bulls in the flesh. Some were everything I thought I would see. There were some that I was absolutely totally shocked at how poor they actually were.One very well known Shorty bull looked like a poor Guernsey. He could have split a rain drop behind his shoulder.  It was a big eye opener for me. There were several that I felt should have never been collected... but that is mu opinion.

In regards to pictures of many of these animals, there are certainly getting to be some professional photo shoppers now. I have also heard that a well known US photgraher has 8 or 10 pairs of legs that can be inserted onto pictures and coloured appropiately. Now to me that is really getting out there a little far. When I flip through many of today's catalogues, I often wonder what is real..... and what is invented.
I will agree that a good picture will make you lots of dollars. Many people buy only from pictures. That does not only go for semen. Personally, I have sold several bulls, females and embryos off my website with the buyer never ever seeing them before the purchase. About 3 years ago, I sold 50 embryos to a guy in Scotland as I was driving to a cattle show. He was looking at my website and he called my cell phone. We made the deal on the phone and he then bought a plane ticket over here and 3 days later he walked up to my stall at Agribition and handed me a cheque for the embryos he had purchased. Kinda proved to me that getting the best pictures possible is super important, but I draw the line at using Photo shop to change animals other than the taking a little hair off a top line if it is required.

 

[kanshow]

You are absolutely right about the worth of a good honest  picture.  That's why it is worth it to spend the time and money to get one.  A bad photographer can make even the best animal look really bad.  I supposed that's one reason to use video- so far they are more work to 'fix'. 

 

[Telos]

I now critique photos by what looks real and natural. Some make me want to vomit because they are so obvious. IMO many of the touched up photos are just poorly 
done. My motto is... less is best.

 

[DLD]

I'm with you Telos.

Give me an imperfect picture of a slicked off, mature bull with somethin'  ugly like an old plow in the background, everytime over a professional photo of fitted up little yearling hair ball. Odds are a whole lot better of me liking that one in person if I like him in the pic.

 

[OH Breeder]

Wow am I confused....

It is ok to change the color of an animal. It is ok to pump the animal. It is ok to use illegal drugs (off label). It is ok to hire a professional in a jr show. It is ok to "tweek" the DOB. It is ok to change the pedigree (sometimes breed). It is ok to add hair some place and take it away in others. All in the name of "enhancing and showing the animal to the best of its and your ability."
And yet now your going to complain when someone "enhances" the photo???? Does it surprise you that after all the shady, illegal things that happen in the show world that someone would "enhance" a photo?

You have got to be kidding me.

Thats a little harsh. :-\

 

[Telos]

Wow am I confused....

It is ok to change the color of an animal. It is ok to pump the animal. It is ok to use illegal drugs (off label). It is ok to hire a professional in a jr show. It is ok to "tweek" the DOB. It is ok to change the pedigree (sometimes breed). It is ok to add hair some place and take it away in others. All in the name of "enhancing and showing the animal to the best of its and your ability."
And yet now your going to complain when someone "enhances" the photo???? Does it surprise you that after all the shady, illegal things that happen in the show world that someone would "enhance" a photo?

You have got to be kidding me.

Thats a little harsh. :-\

Again show heifer, I'm not complaining about people enhancing photos. They are welcome to do as the please. The should have this freedom. What I'm trying to convey is that I think some of these photos are starting to look ridiculous. Some of those bulls with the lower quarter painted on 5-6 in. past where it probably really is, makes me laugh. What really turns me off though, is when they don't know what a bovine is suppose to look like and they take part of the bottom jaw off to make it look cleaner fronted...Here we go... My bull is so clean fronted he doesn't even have a mouth. I think Lautner had one that looked like it had three hind legs.

 

[shortyisqueen]

I don't mind taking a halter out, or cleaning up shadows in the background, but to me when you start enhancing the appearance of a bull that is called FRAUD.  It is kind of suprising to me that the crap that goes on in this business there aren't more lawsuits out there, it's called false advertising no matter how you look at it.

Unfortunately, promoting a bull has taken some cues from the 'outside advertising industry' in alot of cases. Like everywhere else, we are being sold not on the animal having some good parts which we may be able to use to fix faults in our own cattle, but that using this bull will make us the PERFECT show steer or the PERFECT breeding female. It is not an attainable goal (how many cattle have you each of you seen, in your lifetime, that are the standard of perfection without a single fault? I'm still waiting to spot one....).

The whole world is run on false advertising and false advertising claims. If only you buy this box of hair-color, this car, this computer, this cooling room for your cattle, this straw of semen...your world will be perfect and you will get everything you ever wanted...

Take a look at the following link. Its not about cattle, but it gives a little hint of the deceptive power of photoshop...
http://demo.fb.se/e/girlpower/retouch/retouch/index.html

 

[Telos]

shortyqueen, thanks for the e-mail and the heads up. I really do not want to poo-poo anybodies bull, but many of us have been conditioned to except all this and not  think or look at what is happening. I just look at it as bad art in most cases.

Knabe once phrased on this site..."We look but we don't see". I Think many times that is so true.

 

[Show Heifer]

I honestly don't think the cattle any most shows look like actual REAL cattle. Feet trimmed so close they are lame for a day or two learning how to "walk" again. Hair fluffed to the point of perfection. Tail extensions, twine, and color.
Lets face it, look at a clubbie semen catalog and they rarely even list EPD's, let alone carcass information, scan data, BW, WW, YW, frame, etc. but they are first to brag about HAIR. So I guess, I think the fixed photos follow the whole industry.
If you actually look at some of the ads, you have to look really hard to see what the bull actually is. Breed? Location? Bulls these days are being promoted by everything EXCEPT the actual bull. Have you actually been to a stud collection center and LOOKED at some of these bulls being promoted. Some can't stand for more than a few minutes, if at all. Some are rail thin despite being in a small sheltered pen being fed the "ultimate ration." It is all stuff and fluff in the photos and folks have been dumb enough to buy it in the past, so I am sure they (whoever that may be) will continue and push it further to get the "higher hand" in the future.
An "honest" picture will get you nothing but a "wow, why is HE being promoted?? He looks awful."  Where as a stuffed, fluffed, and fixed photo will get the phone ringing off the hook. And you wonder why there is a multi-million dollar business doing such?
I agree though Telos, some of these photos are just a hoot. Some of the ways bulls/companies are being promoted make me go "huhhhh?" But nothing surprises me at all anymore.
Seems anything/everything  is the "grey area" now-a-days. ???

 

[common sense]

Bulls these days are being promoted by everything EXCEPT the actual bull. Have you actually been to a stud collection center and LOOKED at some of these bulls being promoted. Some can't stand for more than a few minutes, if at all. Some are rail thin despite being in a small sheltered pen being fed the "ultimate ration." It is all stuff and fluff in the photos and folks have been dumb enough to buy it in the past, so I am sure they (whoever that may be) will continue and push it further to get the "higher hand" in the future.
An "honest" picture will get you nothing but a "wow, why is HE being promoted?? He looks awful."  Where as a stuffed, fluffed, and fixed photo will get the phone ringing off the hook. And you wonder why there is a multi-million dollar business doing such?
Seems anything/everything  is the "grey area" now-a-days. ???

I am confused.  You seem to lump all bulls into one category here.  I am not sure which bulls you are happy with.  It seems like the bulls that offer pictures that aren't the "fluff" photos make you unhappy as well as the normal profile shots. Also, you don't seem to be happy with the bulls that offer PHA/TH info, epd's , and all of the other pertinant information.  Perhaps you could explain exactly what it is you are looking for?

 

[Jill]

Bulls these days are being promoted by everything EXCEPT the actual bull. Have you actually been to a stud collection center and LOOKED at some of these bulls being promoted. Some can't stand for more than a few minutes, if at all. Some are rail thin despite being in a small sheltered pen being fed the "ultimate ration." It is all stuff and fluff in the photos and folks have been dumb enough to buy it in the past, so I am sure they (whoever that may be) will continue and push it further to get the "higher hand" in the future.
An "honest" picture will get you nothing but a "wow, why is HE being promoted?? He looks awful."  Where as a stuffed, fluffed, and fixed photo will get the phone ringing off the hook. And you wonder why there is a multi-million dollar business doing such?
Seems anything/everything  is the "grey area" now-a-days. ???

I am confused.  You seem to lump all bulls into one category here.  I am not sure which bulls you are happy with.  It seems like the bulls that offer pictures that aren't the "fluff" photos make you unhappy as well as the normal profile shots. Also, you don't seem to be happy with the bulls that offer PHA/TH info, epd's , and all of the other pertinant information.   Perhaps you could explain exactly what it is you are looking for?

Show Heifer and DL almost single handedly ruined the future of a really good bull even though he seemed to have all of the things they were looking for, he didn't have the fluff, what you saw is what you got and he had all info posted.  You don't like the clubby bulls, the show business or the purebred industry, let's just call a spade a spade and say you just like to spread negative.
On a lighter not, we flushed to Joe and got eggs we'll be putting in the 1st of June, really excited about the mating.

 

[Telos]

Well, I did not start this  thread to be about anything other then how photos are crafted. My opinion was only geared towards how I thought some of the retouching was poorly executed and overdone.

I like opinions but sometimes people make mistakes a maybe go too far. We have to confront our own statements and ask ourselves if we right or wrong. I know it is Sunday and I'm preaching. I believe we should learn that peoples opinions are just their opinions.

Ole Joe you sure have caused quite a ruckus. Who was it that said; It's better to be talked about then not talked about at all"."

 

[aj]

How do you ruin the future of a young bull? :-\

 

[Jill]

How do you ruin the future of a young bull? :-\

Maybe what i should have said was earning potential.

 

[Show Heifer]

Telos, I agree, some of the photos being used for promotion and in semen catalogs are so "re-created" that it is obvious. And I guess that is where professional "touch-up artist" come in. And yes, it seems to be common. Something to keep an eye out for sure!!

 

[knabe]

HAHH, 

one of my favorite pics of a bull is of energizer with poop all over his tuckus on the derouchey site.  i'm assuming the pic is a little over exposed to get at the shadow's in his black hide.

one of my least favorite is the 3/4 rear of bouncer all fluffed and mudded up.  his mature pic is a lot better, but i would like to see a little more natural pose.

as for selling semen on that YW angus bull, have you used any user comments, or called around to people who you think could use him in their operation and offered some kind of promotion?  perhaps the maine bull by the same name will attract attention for your bull.  he seems to be a commercial customer bull for walmart, costco profit picture.  if thats not the case in your mind, you need to change that with results.

i would like to see a pic of WAR CHIEF, energizer's sire.