Is the rat tail deal still a thing?

[aj]

With Black Angus bloodlines moving into the Red Angus deal......it got me wondering.

 

[GoWyo]

I think any homozygous black cow bred to a diluter gene bull (charolais or yellow simmental) can throw a rat tail.  We had a rat tail heifer (Smokin Bob x Irish Whiskey-Angus) that I suspect is THC bred to my Angus bull and the calf is coal black and as fuzzy as any clubby bred calf.  Also had a black maine cross cow throw a rat tail by Lovin the Business.  So yup, seems to be "still a thing" at least at my place when black cow meets char cross  .

 

[aj]

So nothing could be transfered from the black angus to the Red Angus other than color that would be a detriment down the road in regaurds to the rat deal condition.

 

[GoWyo]

I have been looking for information, but I do not find anything showing whether a heterogeneous black cow will throw a rat tail.  Last year I bred 3 crossbred cows to the Horn bull Lovin the Business.  A red baldy cow (One and Only x Limmy/Angus) had a coal black calf with normal hair.  A black cow (Walks Alone x PB Commercial Angus) that I suspect is THC had a fuzzy peach colored calf.  The other black cow (Maine cross) that I suspect is homozygous black had the rat tailed grey calf (calf is really stout).  I also read that the rat tail is supposedly fairly rare, but it seems we get one on the homozygous black cows almost every time. 

If you breed Red Angus to Angus and have a black hided red carrier you might avoid the rat tail problem.

 

[MDitmars]

We have an old Charolais that seems to throw rat tail every year she is bred angus.

 

[shortybreeder]

Can someone post a picture of a rattail? The way my uncle described them just sounded like a smokey steer. We're looking at breeding most of our F1 Angus/Holstein cows to Charolais as terminal cross, but from what I've read in the past the rat tail issue concerns me in our cold climate.

 

[CAB]

LINKS TO INFO AND POSSIBLY SOME PICTURES OF "RAT TAIL" CATTLE

http://www.beefmagazine.com/mag/beef_right_alley_2

http://www.cattletoday.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=56237

 

[RyanChandler]

Can someone post a picture of a rattail? The way my uncle described them just sounded like a smokey steer. We're looking at breeding most of our F1 Angus/Holstein cows to Charolais as terminal cross, but from what I've read in the past the rat tail issue concerns me in our cold climate.

Don't let the rare instance of a rat tail deter you from your plan.  I am very interested in hearing how you do with this cross.  I think it's a great approach and I'd like to see people do a whole lot more of this type of crossbreeding using highly specialized lines. 

 

[shortybreeder]

Can someone post a picture of a rattail? The way my uncle described them just sounded like a smokey steer. We're looking at breeding most of our F1 Angus/Holstein cows to Charolais as terminal cross, but from what I've read in the past the rat tail issue concerns me in our cold climate.

Don't let the rare instance of a rat tail deter you from your plan.  I am very interested in hearing how you do with this cross.  I think it's a great approach and I'd like to see people do a whole lot more of this type of crossbreeding using highly specialized lines.

In order to avoid changing the topic sway from rat tails, I sent you a PM on our experiences with this cross. Here's the pictures (sorry they aren't relevant to the post, I'm just not sure how to include them in a PM)

 

[CAB]

If you have read the links Shortybreeder, I would be concerned about the Angus / Holstein cross Char. It is specifically pointed out as a cross to avoid. There have been great strides made trying to eliminate the diluter gene over the years so that the rat tail occurrence is way less prevalent than previously observed.
I remember an old timer telling me once that if SH is in the equation, you would not have any rat tails. have any of you SH breeders ever had a rat tail?

 

[justintime]

If you have read the links Shortybreeder, I would be concerned about the Angus / Holstein cross Char. It is specifically pointed out as a cross to avoid. There have been great strides made trying to eliminate the diluter gene over the years so that the rat tail occurrence is way less prevalent than previously observed.
I remember an old timer telling me once that if SH is in the equation, you would not have any rat tails. have any of you SH breeders ever had a rat tail?

I have been told the same thing in regards to having SH in an animal and never having a rat tail calf. I also have never heard of a rat tail calf based on Red Angus and Charolais.  This may be wrong but in my experience, all the rat tails I have heard of were grey and were Black Angus and Charolais.  When we were feeding cattle, I fed lots of rat tail calves, and they almost consistently made the most money. This was mainly because I could buy them at a huge discounted price. Some rat tails had great gains but there were some that had reduced gains, but the difference in purchase price allowed them to be profitable.

 

[Mark H]

I have had a few rat tails.  The source of the genetics from what we could tell were Holstein, Pie Rouge Simmental, and Chianina. All calves came from Angus cows.  Full French Charolais bulls never through a rat tail that I know of. The Holstein came in via percentage Charolais graded up on dairy stock.  We told the Charolais breeder and the cow family responsible had its papers pulled.
We also made money on rat tails bought at a discount and then rail graded.  Rat tails have problems but not as bad as thought by sale barn wags.

 

[Go Green]

My daughters show steer this year has a rat tail, he is a Troubadour out of Galloway X Heatwave.
i don't have a picture of his tail. I will try and get one this weekend. Show Coat seems to be helping grow the hair on his tail out. She is doing her first jackpot in 2 weeks, do you think it will hurt him?

 

[Go Green]

Another pic.

 

[GoWyo]

Looks like a TH Carrier rat tail.  Have a Smokin Bob x Irish Whiskey cow with hair like that.  She had a hairy black calf when bred angus.

 

[Go Green]

I don't know if his dam is THC or not. The breeder said " its fairly common in Charolais X black".

i was thinking the hair was from the Galloway.

 

[Mark H]

That steer is not a true rat tail. He still hair you can work.  Most of the ones I worked with had tight curley hair that was so short it looked like some did a close clip job on them.  But this raises a question: Do THC carriers show some rat tail traits?

 

[GoWyo]

The smoke heifer we have sired by Smokin Bob by an Irish Whiskey x Angus cow has long sparse guard hairs, very little regular hair and no tail switch.  Pretty sure she is a TH carrier and she would definitely be a rat tail with the exception of the long guard hairs.  Bred Angus she had a black, fairly hairy calf.  I ought to test her just out of curiosity, but since we had to c-section a 70# calf out of her she is going to hit the road this fall.

 

[Simmgal]

My daughters show steer this year has a rat tail, he is a Troubadour out of Galloway X Heatwave.
i don't have a picture of his tail. I will try and get one this weekend. Show Coat seems to be helping grow the hair on his tail out. She is doing her first jackpot in 2 weeks, do you think it will hurt him?

Getcha some hair extensions! Make that tail look longer! Haha  (lol)

 

[oakview]

Don't laugh!  There was a VERY successful show heifer a few years ago that had absolutely no tail.  I mean from the tail head down.  They fastened on a tail they picked up, I guess from a locker or slaughter plant.  You couldn't tell the difference.  Lots of high dollar cattle sold out of her or her clones.