BIGTEX
Well-known member
I was thinking about flushing a cow to him and was wondering if anyone has had any calves yet? What does he look like as a 2 year old? Will he moderate? Thanks in advance.
Ivy League
- Thread starter BIGTEX
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kfacres
Well-known member
i requested a picture myself, and didn't get one... said there wasn't any.. he got hurt of something, and they didn't take any pictures after Denver... IDN.. ??? ??? seems to me awefully l ong time to not take a picture b/w jan and oct or whenever he got hurt... Heck, think I take pics around here once a month..
BIGTEX
Well-known member
I think the owners are on here a bunch?
j3cattleco
Well-known member
kfacres, Below is your question and my response.
"hey josh... how bout you release an updated picture of ivy leage... also what's his frame score now? I have been thinking about him, I like his pedigree some, and remember him quite well from Denver, but won't think of trying him till I see how he grew out.."
"Ivy is pretty close to a 5 and a half frame he might be a tick bigger than that. We had planned on taking him back to Denver, but he got hurt in oct so we couldn't take him. We almost lost him so hopefully at some time we can get him caught up to take a new picture. He's at the farm in ok so anyone can see him when they want his momma is there also.".
Your question was if we had an updated picture, and we do not. I live 10 hours from our farm and have not been there since the first week in Nov, only a few weeks after he got hurt. So I do not have an updated picture. I am going to the farm in two weeks to picture him and we will try weather permitting. There was one other picture taken of Ivy League that was posted on Steerplanet back in the summer right after coming out of the bull stud and after we had sheared him off. I have reattached it. I'm not exactly sure what your problem with me or our bull is but, if you have questions you are free to pm me and I will answer any you have I answer them the best I can. Let's just leave these other discussions to their intended purpose.
BIGTEX, As i stated above we are working on an updated picture. I do think he will moderate, his momma is sure not very big and Ivy has stayed right in that Mid 5 frame area. Our first calves are due the second and third week in march so as soon as I can get pics I will. I do live a long way away from the farm so it will take a minute to get pics. If you have any other questions just let me know. We are anxiously awaiting calves so so if anyone has any let us know who they look!
Joshua
"hey josh... how bout you release an updated picture of ivy leage... also what's his frame score now? I have been thinking about him, I like his pedigree some, and remember him quite well from Denver, but won't think of trying him till I see how he grew out.."
"Ivy is pretty close to a 5 and a half frame he might be a tick bigger than that. We had planned on taking him back to Denver, but he got hurt in oct so we couldn't take him. We almost lost him so hopefully at some time we can get him caught up to take a new picture. He's at the farm in ok so anyone can see him when they want his momma is there also.".
Your question was if we had an updated picture, and we do not. I live 10 hours from our farm and have not been there since the first week in Nov, only a few weeks after he got hurt. So I do not have an updated picture. I am going to the farm in two weeks to picture him and we will try weather permitting. There was one other picture taken of Ivy League that was posted on Steerplanet back in the summer right after coming out of the bull stud and after we had sheared him off. I have reattached it. I'm not exactly sure what your problem with me or our bull is but, if you have questions you are free to pm me and I will answer any you have I answer them the best I can. Let's just leave these other discussions to their intended purpose.
BIGTEX, As i stated above we are working on an updated picture. I do think he will moderate, his momma is sure not very big and Ivy has stayed right in that Mid 5 frame area. Our first calves are due the second and third week in march so as soon as I can get pics I will. I do live a long way away from the farm so it will take a minute to get pics. If you have any other questions just let me know. We are anxiously awaiting calves so so if anyone has any let us know who they look!
Joshua
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BIGTEX
Well-known member
Thanks Joshua.
CAB
Well-known member
I saw Ivy League the first week of June 09. He had just gotten home the day or 2 B4 we saw him. He had been slick sheered @ that time and put out with a small group of cows. I was very impressed with him. He is exactly as Josh describes the bull. He is for real by that I mean he is not a hairy fuzz ball with no substance or just another pretty picture. We had a Sin City bred to him, but she aborted in mid Dec. We have a Fear This grand daughter bred for an April calf that we have had a hard time finding the right bull for that we are hoping works. I will try to get pics up when it comes. IMO IL should moderate frame without sacrificing power. He may need to be used on a longer fronted feminine looking cow.
kfacres
Well-known member
I don't have a problem with him or you... other than I find it unrealistic that there wasn't any pictures taken between Denver, and when he got hurt last fall/ winter... whenever it was... That was almost a year... Especially on something that you're trying to promote so well. Him being so young and all at Denver probably didn't help any either! I know on a personal note, there are alot of questions in my mind lingering from seeing him in person at such a young age.
I know what you mean about living away from home, I myself live 6+ hours from home, while at school--- but can still call home and have mom snap a picture if needed! She'll sure not argue about taking a few min to take a picture of something by following them around the pasture if it means some income!!!
I like the bull- and may use him in the future-- ARE YOU HAPPY NOW??? I'll say it.. he's the best Shorthorn bull I've ever seen... Use him on every cow, every shape and size... He's far better than JPJ, the bull I dislike so much. -- and that's the truth.
I know what you mean about living away from home, I myself live 6+ hours from home, while at school--- but can still call home and have mom snap a picture if needed! She'll sure not argue about taking a few min to take a picture of something by following them around the pasture if it means some income!!!
I like the bull- and may use him in the future-- ARE YOU HAPPY NOW??? I'll say it.. he's the best Shorthorn bull I've ever seen... Use him on every cow, every shape and size... He's far better than JPJ, the bull I dislike so much. -- and that's the truth.
TMJ Show Cattle
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kfacres,I have thought you to be an "older"respected breeder in your community.However some of your more recent post has left no doubt that you must be some young whippersnapper,although maybe with good intentions,you seem to be misinformed on trying to find out info on a bull or it"s owner.Just because you don"t do things a certain way,doesn"t make the other person wrong.Your hatefullness of JPJ seems to be bothering you so much,that it"s clouding your judgement about bulls or people for that matter.By the way, it"s ok to dislike a bull,but you have never given any justifiable reason for your hatetred.I think there must be hundreds or even thousand people that might disagree with you.Case in point: With the exception of Heatwave,Genetic Horizons/SEK has sold more semen on JPJ than any other bull in their lineup.I think a big percentage of folks like JPJ quite alot.It"s ok that you don"t,but it seems to me you are getting so riled up on why JASON HASN"T taken any pictures before he did was some kind of crime directed at you personally.If you have a problem,find out by P.M. or e-mail.I didn"t P.M. you on this subject for one reason: So you can get a feel of what it"s like to be downsized on a public forum.
Throttle
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When you are promoting a bull, you can't just go out and snap a picture. If it isn't perfect, it will hurt semen sales. Too many ppl in the clubby and Shorty realm that flat out can not see one in working clothes and have any clue at all if it is any good. Plus, I personally don't just walk out to do chores with a camera everyday. Took pic of one calf last fall
OH Breeder
Well-known member
Throttle said:
Amen.
After the picture that Knabed posted of a bull in his working clothes I would have to agree.
kfacres
Well-known member
TMJ, that's ok... we all are 'young' at heart...
While I do not doubt for one moment that JPJ is any, and everyone's 2nd high seller... Now, is that the owners' fault-- NO-- it should commend them for doing the job of promoting him.
I'll also admit that he does briing SOME things to the breed, and industry that are needs with moderation, c.e., fleshing abiltiy, and clean genome.. Is he the savior-- most def not! I think what he's also bringing in as side effects are going to be far worse than the positives.. With his shear structural size, or a lack of... and his actual structural flexability that has been breeding on are SERIOUS problems... for any herd, any color... It's not the way to be, as most shorthorn breeders are doing.. by breeding extremes to extremes and hoping to meet in the middle... breeders and reproducers need to be breeding for middle with middle type cattle.. I had a breeder descibe to me once that his program was geared to "create small or at largest moderate framed...bla bla bla cattle... And to them- JPJ wasn't a contender to reside in the semen tank becuase of his lack of performance. They even disliked him enough not to want to use a son, who by the way is a really really good rip- and fit every category in terms of qualifications- but becasue he was a JPJ son, they didn't want him.
Another thing that is a guineune concern of mine is his spoken 'outcross' pedigree- which is more like an 'old' pedigree with leader 21, and more unknown cattle, etc... I think these older genetics can and are being used in today's world very succesfully- like they should be- but I beleive they should be used on a very limited basis-- by only those elite core of seedstock breeders who knew them, and know about them. There was a reason that those genetics were in the yesteryears. Most breeders of today, like myself, know nothing of these oldies, other than what's in black and white, and sometimes color- and by what's said from an old timers mouth. I beleive that most breeders like to shoot the shit.. and more times than not- don't remember those cattle as they were- just in relevance to what they were like. Some times, I don't think outcross (or less popular) is always a good thing. I know that certain bloodlines got popular for a reason because they work!
Even in my own herd, of which I try to remain outcross- I would more classify it as being not popular, and old school like in pedigree. But I am an exception. I only know of the old stuff by what is, and was told to me, and by what I read. I know this saying contridicts itself.. The reason I try to remain unpopular on paper is the endless opportunities of mating possibilities. That's it! The cattle I have were affordable, they get the job done, and to me pedigree means nothing... To me, popular prefixes mean nothing, if they can't get the job done- I refuse to buy just because of a few letters on paper. If my cattle are doing what they should be, and are doing those things great- I could care less what people think of my pedigrees. I also just know that when I lay eyes upon the best beast to walk this planet- I'm going to breed everything I have to him- regardless of pedigree. It will be a plus to have cattle that are unrelated! Most programs can't say that! even though I don't mind linebreeding.
Now, will I ever use JPJ- no, will I use a son? maybe- I've thought about trying Capiche out on heifers, as I really like his bottom side with Mission in there- but what I know, and have heard- that is a double shot of straight- especially upfront... Straight from Kerry's mouth! I like Capiche in Denver, but that was one of my faults on him. Thought he rolled, and was a nickle straight upfront!
On the other note, I hope the J3 cattle people take very little offense to my comments... Their not completely directed at you... I just know that if I'm going to take the time, money, and effort to promote a product- whether cattle, semen, or etc... I'm going to take many pictures, videos, and use technology to the fullest extent to promote my product to a wider variety of potential customers. I'm going to take pics at weaning, for those who concern on feeder calves, I'm going to picture at the other stages of life as well-- for those who worry about them. I'm going to take pictures in fitted outfits- for those who show, slick sheard for those who slick- and of course I'm going to take working pics for those who are serious contenders. Any Joe Blow can critize my product all they want- if they have the back up to do it- but I'm going to do my darndest to prove them wrong.. and likely, It'll just bring me free advertising... Just as I have done with JPJ!
jody kabat
kf-acres
While I do not doubt for one moment that JPJ is any, and everyone's 2nd high seller... Now, is that the owners' fault-- NO-- it should commend them for doing the job of promoting him.
I'll also admit that he does briing SOME things to the breed, and industry that are needs with moderation, c.e., fleshing abiltiy, and clean genome.. Is he the savior-- most def not! I think what he's also bringing in as side effects are going to be far worse than the positives.. With his shear structural size, or a lack of... and his actual structural flexability that has been breeding on are SERIOUS problems... for any herd, any color... It's not the way to be, as most shorthorn breeders are doing.. by breeding extremes to extremes and hoping to meet in the middle... breeders and reproducers need to be breeding for middle with middle type cattle.. I had a breeder descibe to me once that his program was geared to "create small or at largest moderate framed...bla bla bla cattle... And to them- JPJ wasn't a contender to reside in the semen tank becuase of his lack of performance. They even disliked him enough not to want to use a son, who by the way is a really really good rip- and fit every category in terms of qualifications- but becasue he was a JPJ son, they didn't want him.
Another thing that is a guineune concern of mine is his spoken 'outcross' pedigree- which is more like an 'old' pedigree with leader 21, and more unknown cattle, etc... I think these older genetics can and are being used in today's world very succesfully- like they should be- but I beleive they should be used on a very limited basis-- by only those elite core of seedstock breeders who knew them, and know about them. There was a reason that those genetics were in the yesteryears. Most breeders of today, like myself, know nothing of these oldies, other than what's in black and white, and sometimes color- and by what's said from an old timers mouth. I beleive that most breeders like to shoot the shit.. and more times than not- don't remember those cattle as they were- just in relevance to what they were like. Some times, I don't think outcross (or less popular) is always a good thing. I know that certain bloodlines got popular for a reason because they work!
Even in my own herd, of which I try to remain outcross- I would more classify it as being not popular, and old school like in pedigree. But I am an exception. I only know of the old stuff by what is, and was told to me, and by what I read. I know this saying contridicts itself.. The reason I try to remain unpopular on paper is the endless opportunities of mating possibilities. That's it! The cattle I have were affordable, they get the job done, and to me pedigree means nothing... To me, popular prefixes mean nothing, if they can't get the job done- I refuse to buy just because of a few letters on paper. If my cattle are doing what they should be, and are doing those things great- I could care less what people think of my pedigrees. I also just know that when I lay eyes upon the best beast to walk this planet- I'm going to breed everything I have to him- regardless of pedigree. It will be a plus to have cattle that are unrelated! Most programs can't say that! even though I don't mind linebreeding.
Now, will I ever use JPJ- no, will I use a son? maybe- I've thought about trying Capiche out on heifers, as I really like his bottom side with Mission in there- but what I know, and have heard- that is a double shot of straight- especially upfront... Straight from Kerry's mouth! I like Capiche in Denver, but that was one of my faults on him. Thought he rolled, and was a nickle straight upfront!
On the other note, I hope the J3 cattle people take very little offense to my comments... Their not completely directed at you... I just know that if I'm going to take the time, money, and effort to promote a product- whether cattle, semen, or etc... I'm going to take many pictures, videos, and use technology to the fullest extent to promote my product to a wider variety of potential customers. I'm going to take pics at weaning, for those who concern on feeder calves, I'm going to picture at the other stages of life as well-- for those who worry about them. I'm going to take pictures in fitted outfits- for those who show, slick sheard for those who slick- and of course I'm going to take working pics for those who are serious contenders. Any Joe Blow can critize my product all they want- if they have the back up to do it- but I'm going to do my darndest to prove them wrong.. and likely, It'll just bring me free advertising... Just as I have done with JPJ!
jody kabat
kf-acres
TMJ Show Cattle
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I don't remember saying anything or heard of anyone saying JPJ was the one all be all of anything.What you do with your cattle is your bussiness.But in the real world it is what it is,just an opinion,which I respect.That being said,you are disclaiming other peoples opinion.I don"t make any decisions on one man's opinion.I think as you yourself has said,you talk from both sides of the mouth.If Jake is not for you,so be that.But I would like this question answered: If he is so bad,why has his semen sales been so good? Why is it when he sires a good bull or heifer,they sell better than average?You only have a narrow view of why other breeders use him.As far as pedigrees go,they are a helpful tool even for commercial breeders.Their are way more registered breeders using him than you might think.Besides all of that you seem to despise club calf breeders altogether.Just because you have a piece of paper,is a good thing most of the time,although some college degree"s in some folks I know,really is a waste.Common sense always prevails.I know of a few club calf breeders that is just as smart as any commmercial or purebred breeder.A real cowman is a cowman,no matter how he chooses to run his operation.Personally I like most other real cowmen don't have the time to run around with a camera or video machine. I helped my daughters get started with selling their calves and put some pictures on SP.However,word of mouth,and the fact that I have alot of contacts,built from reputation, got their calves sold.As old and slow as I am I would never get the real work done if I toted a camera all day....I'm sure you are a good person and I wish you well.
linnettejane
Well-known member
"I'm going to take many pictures, videos, and use technology to the fullest extent to promote my product to a wider variety of potential customers. I'm going to take pics at weaning, for those who concern on feeder calves, I'm going to picture at the other stages of life as well-- for those who worry about them. I'm going to take pictures in fitted outfits- for those who show, slick sheard for those who slick- and of course I'm going to take working pics for those who are serious contenders."
how many ai sires today have all that "publicity?" most just have one pic, taken at the "prime" of their lives to use in the semen catalogs....well, at least that's pretty much all i ever see.....
how many ai sires today have all that "publicity?" most just have one pic, taken at the "prime" of their lives to use in the semen catalogs....well, at least that's pretty much all i ever see.....
kfacres
Well-known member
that's because none are good enough... never has been an animal- of any species-- perfect-- nor a human, also an animal
j3cattleco
Well-known member
I'm sorry kf acres, but to say that none of the bulls are good enough is crazy. There are many of the all time greats that we only have one picture of. A bad picture is way worse than no picture. We have posted pictures of Ivy League since he was a couple weeks old on steerplanet so we have done exactly as you have suggested but I'm not going to take a picture just to take one just like I would never send out a resume that wasn't perfect. A bad picture stays around forever just ask a celebrity.
Joshua
Joshua
coyote
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kfacres, You have a nice web site but I can't seem to find on it who you are or where are you at.
Is it my PC giving me grief?
Is it my PC giving me grief?
kfacres
Well-known member
My contacts page was acting up, and am in process of redoing it... sorry bout that... located S. IL...
personally, my cattle website needs some work.. it's pretty basic... I do like my sheep one... I guess it would naturally be better since, it's our main focus..The link is on the bottom of the homepage for the shorthorns..
thanks for looking!!
personally, my cattle website needs some work.. it's pretty basic... I do like my sheep one... I guess it would naturally be better since, it's our main focus..The link is on the bottom of the homepage for the shorthorns..
thanks for looking!!
Show Steaks
Well-known member
IMO there is no point in taking a poor quality picture... weather you have a fluffy fit to the hill promotional bull in denver, a green feeder calf at a labor day sale, a mature herd bull on cows, mature cows or bred heifers. IMO you should always take the best representation of the animal and emphasis the pieces that your customers are asking for. bad pictures cant sell a calf or semen to somebody on the other side of the country that is unable to see your product in person.
Just 2 cents from some 18 y/o cattle junky
Andrew
Just 2 cents from some 18 y/o cattle junky
Andrew
BCCC
Well-known member
What is good enough? How many pictures are there of Meyer, Cunia, Heat Wave, Heat Seeker, Northern Improvement, Monopoly, Sun Seeker, ect out there? Not a whole lot, and deffinatly not one of them fitted and unfitted at weaning, yearling, and mature, along with pictures of them slick sheared at those times. All of those bulls are what I would call "good enough" maybe not at everythign but they are plenty good for what they are used for.kfacres said:
J3 Cattle does have pictures of Ivy League here on SP from when he was a calf, weaning, pictures from before he took him to Denver and pictures of him in his working clothes in July. So Jason did take some pictures of his promotional bull in the past 2 years or so.
http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=4602.0
http://www.steerplanet.com/bb/index.php?topic=7901.0
kfacres
Well-known member
well good for him.. i'm not saying that I'd take that many pics of the bull-- but I would take several... of those at the stages I'm trying to target...
ever wonder why there's only 1 picture of most clubby bulls/?? think it's got to do with anything like maybe as a hairy little calf.. that's the only time in their lives that you can hide their crippledness.. and most don't live to be 3, nor every service a cow????
enough, I'm done with this arguement.. I got my words out
ever wonder why there's only 1 picture of most clubby bulls/?? think it's got to do with anything like maybe as a hairy little calf.. that's the only time in their lives that you can hide their crippledness.. and most don't live to be 3, nor every service a cow????
enough, I'm done with this arguement.. I got my words out
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