Jakes Proud Jazz ? Thoughts

[jaimiediamond]

I wouldnt call any bull out there bulletproof for anything, but a lot of times people tend to forget that the cow gives the calf 50% of the DNA.  I dont care if you have a bull that is consistantly throwing 40 lbs calves, if you breed him to a heifer whose bloodlines are packed with 130lb calves on both sides(which a lot of the clubbies are) then you have a big risk for trouble regardless.  Also I think when we talk about calving ease we put way to much emphasis on birthweight when talking about calving ease, people will argue, but most 1st calf heifers if they are good cattle that have grown and developed well should be able to drop an 80-90 lb calf with little to no assistance.  Back in highschool a neighbor had a 1st calf angus heifer drop a 110 lb bull calf with absolutely no assistance.  Its not so much size that is the issue here, sure there is a point where they are just to big, but its shape that is the true problem.  These clubby cattle tend to throw squarer, bigger shouldered calves, then you add that to the fact that we have a lot of cows and heifers runnin around out there these days with pelvic areas that are way to small, and its not a matter of the weight of the calf that is the issue, its the shape, the cows cant get those big shoulders past their pelvis.

I haven't had any experience with Jake's Proud Jazz but I have heard great things about some of his sons.  

I really have to agree with twistedhshowstock though especially the points I bolded.

 

[Toughie]

We bought the two JPJ heifers that Jungels consigned to the Agribition Sale in 2009.  They have both calved with red bull calves.  JSF RB Mighty Mary had a 84 lb bull calf unassisted by Alta Cedar Samurai.  She has a very good udder, lots of milk for a heifer and weaned a really nice calf, while not losing condition.  She has been 3 weeks dry now anad is really putting the weight on.  The other heifer, through no fault of her own ended up having a June bull calf.  She is a full sister to the Master of Jazz bull that sold in the first Durhams for Denver sale.  She has a red bull calf by our James Ricky bull, 78 lbs at birth and still growing like a weed.  She has a near perfect udder and is milking well and keeping condition also.  Both calved unassisted from bulls that can leave some weight on their calves.  All in alll we are very pleasedd with these two JPJ heifers.  They may be the only females in Canada at this time.  They are the perfect size and structure for what we want on our farm.  They are both bred to a son of Northern Legend that is leaving some real meaty calves here.

 

[cattlejunky5]

Thanks for all the opinions you guys! what do yall think would happen if i bred him to the female in my avatar?

 

[kfacres]

Thanks for all the opinions you guys! what do yall think would happen if i bred him to the female in my avatar?

you'd get a calf <deadhorse> with maybe a little chrome and blue

 

[Pleasant Grove Farms]

saw Jakes Proud Jazz at stud a couple of weeks ago at Dakota Sires in Mitchell, SD
he was breeding cows naturally last summer at Jungles at AGE 10!!

Just that fact should answer issues of soundness.
And he is at stud at age 10; the guys at Dakota Sires were very impressed with his longevity and soundness and fertility at an age when most bulls are deceased.

 

[shortii]

I don't really want this to get talking about the credibility of the bull i just really want to know what your experiences are with him and if you have any pictures of calves.

Not questioning his abilities here...I have a line bred son out of him. He has been a dependable calving ease solution for us. The calves have hair and usually are very sale-able  even out of average cows.
I will let you know how the calves are in the spring "12 out of a grandson.
I would think that with his availability really being public in 07 those calves would have been born 08 and they bred 09 would have calved 10. So I think he just needs some more time.

so that makes his daughters, 2nd calf, working on 3rd calf heifers?  Correct?  how many years does it take to determine if one's worth keeping around or not? 

I'd say by 2nd calf they're either cutting it, or not.

Not to continue to bash the bull... as I finally broke down and bought semen on a son of his- even though I've hated JPJ for many years... I guess I thought I needed some fat little dumpy straight legged calves.

Who would have guessed miss negativity had to something bad to say. Maybe you should take a look at your cows before you start slamming the sire.

 

[QMC]

Go to cwcattlesales and check out lot 1 on Campbells sale.  I went over to see the calves Sunday and couldn't believe how much width she had.  I have never used the bull, but after seeing that heifer I may have to give him a try!

 

[shortdawg]

Forgot to mention that we had a State Breed Champion and Reserve Grand Overall State Champion Steer sired by JPJ back in '09 - there's a pic of him somewhere on here.

 

[kfacres]

I don't really want this to get talking about the credibility of the bull i just really want to know what your experiences are with him and if you have any pictures of calves.

Not questioning his abilities here...I have a line bred son out of him. He has been a dependable calving ease solution for us. The calves have hair and usually are very sale-able  even out of average cows.
I will let you know how the calves are in the spring "12 out of a grandson.
I would think that with his availability really being public in 07 those calves would have been born 08 and they bred 09 would have calved 10. So I think he just needs some more time.

so that makes his daughters, 2nd calf, working on 3rd calf heifers?  Correct?  how many years does it take to determine if one's worth keeping around or not? 

I'd say by 2nd calf they're either cutting it, or not.

Not to continue to bash the bull... as I finally broke down and bought semen on a son of his- even though I've hated JPJ for many years... I guess I thought I needed some fat little dumpy straight legged calves.

Who would have guessed miss negativity had to something bad to say. Maybe you should take a look at your cows before you start slamming the sire.

What's your point.>> Who gives a damn what they look like when the eternal element is headed to the market place and food chain?  btw, I can tell you're new on here, and obviously have no idea what you are talking about, in regards to me being "miss negativity".

 

[shortii]

I don't really want this to get talking about the credibility of the bull i just really want to know what your experiences are with him and if you have any pictures of calves.

Not questioning his abilities here...I have a line bred son out of him. He has been a dependable calving ease solution for us. The calves have hair and usually are very sale-able  even out of average cows.
I will let you know how the calves are in the spring "12 out of a grandson.
I would think that with his availability really being public in 07 those calves would have been born 08 and they bred 09 would have calved 10. So I think he just needs some more time.

so that makes his daughters, 2nd calf, working on 3rd calf heifers?  Correct?  how many years does it take to determine if one's worth keeping around or not? 

I'd say by 2nd calf they're either cutting it, or not.

Not to continue to bash the bull... as I finally broke down and bought semen on a son of his- even though I've hated JPJ for many years... I guess I thought I needed some fat little dumpy straight legged calves.

Who would have guessed miss negativity had to something bad to say. Maybe you should take a look at your cows before you start slamming the sire.

What's your point.>> Who gives a damn what they look like when the eternal element is headed to the market place and food chain?  btw, I can tell you're new on here, and obviously have no idea what you are talking about, in regards to me being "miss negativity".

I have been on here long enough to see that about 9 times out of 10 when you post something on a thread its almost always negative.

 

[kfacres]

I don't really want this to get talking about the credibility of the bull i just really want to know what your experiences are with him and if you have any pictures of calves.

Not questioning his abilities here...I have a line bred son out of him. He has been a dependable calving ease solution for us. The calves have hair and usually are very sale-able  even out of average cows.
I will let you know how the calves are in the spring "12 out of a grandson.
I would think that with his availability really being public in 07 those calves would have been born 08 and they bred 09 would have calved 10. So I think he just needs some more time.

so that makes his daughters, 2nd calf, working on 3rd calf heifers?  Correct?  how many years does it take to determine if one's worth keeping around or not? 

I'd say by 2nd calf they're either cutting it, or not.

Not to continue to bash the bull... as I finally broke down and bought semen on a son of his- even though I've hated JPJ for many years... I guess I thought I needed some fat little dumpy straight legged calves.

Who would have guessed miss negativity had to something bad to say. Maybe you should take a look at your cows before you start slamming the sire.

What's your point.>> Who gives a damn what they look like when the eternal element is headed to the market place and food chain?  btw, I can tell you're new on here, and obviously have no idea what you are talking about, in regards to me being "miss negativity".

I have been on here long enough to see that about 9 times out of 10 when you post something on a thread its almost always negative.

i think you MISSed the KEY POINT, MISSy

 

[vc]

I hate, I would have to say since it got your nickers in a twist, they did not miss anything.
Your reply should have been something like " That's Mr. Negativity to you" and just left it at that.
As far as this statement "Who gives a damn what they look like when the eternal element is headed to the market place and food chain?
I think Wagyu are the cattle for you, all about the end product and nothing to look at.

I thought this was a show cattle based forum?

 

[kfacres]

I hate, I would have to say since it got your nickers in a twist, they did not miss anything.
Your reply should have been something like " That's Mr. Negativity to you" and just left it at that.
As far as this statement "Who gives a damn what they look like when the eternal element is headed to the market place and food chain?
I think Wagyu are the cattle for you, all about the end product and nothing to look at.

I thought this was a show cattle based forum?

I've seen the Wagyu bulls @ Denver- interesting approach...  Wonder what one of them would look like ontop a Jersey cow?  Would you even need a spoon to cut that steak? OR would it fall apart on command?

 

[knabe]

i think your arguments fall apart on command.

i wonder what a cow would look like on top of you.

 

[kfacres]

i think your arguments fall apart on command.

i wonder what a cow would look like on top of you.

i almost had a cow on me once, about 2 yrs ago, while milking....  lightning struck the parlor, and a shock when through the pipe system in the free stall barn, parlor, and the whole barn lot.  I was leaning on a pipe, stripping a cow out, and it went through my arm, and hit her... she collapsed, damn neared ontop of me...  made my arm go numb... 

all i could think about was.. sure hope my arm quits hurting.. i've got stupid, irrational comments to type on SP- in regards to commentary made by someone who rarely types in an understandable form of English...

 

[outlawcattlecompany]

One of the best Star 5's (half Gert, half anything else) is out of JPJ. She is a powerhouse - the only thing she can be faulted on is being too small framed for the show ring but she'll be perfect for production.

 

[shortii]

i think your arguments fall apart on command.

i wonder what a cow would look like on top of you.

i almost had a cow on me once, about 2 yrs ago, while milking....  lightning struck the parlor, and a shock when through the pipe system in the free stall barn, parlor, and the whole barn lot.  I was leaning on a pipe, stripping a cow out, and it went through my arm, and hit her... she collapsed, damn neared ontop of me...  made my arm go numb... 

all i could think about was.. sure hope my arm quits hurting.. i've got stupid, irrational comments to type on SP- in regards to commentary made by someone who rarely types in an understandable form of English...

I understood Knabe pretty well.

 

[shortii]

I apologize to everyone to the people that were seeking out information on this thread. Normally I don't start a bunch of drama, i was just really annoyed and I apologize for that, I should have ignored it. 

 

[Pleasant Grove Farms]

totally understand...
it is very hard to do with pple that are idiots.

 

[skeeter]

One of the best Star 5's (half Gert, half anything else) is out of JPJ. She is a powerhouse - the only thing she can be faulted on is being too small framed for the show ring but she'll be perfect for production.

Interesting.  I have always wondered whether a good American cow crossed with a stout Shorthorn (one that works for shorty steers here in Texas) would produce an American steer that was moderate, plenty of muscle, probably more hair than average Americans, and would finish for Fort Worth at about 1250- 1275.  of course on color, no telling what you'd get.  Anybody else thought of this or tried it for Texas Americans, specially with Fort Worth in mind?