James H Leachman Please read

[chambero]

I haven't bothered to ready any of the articles, but is there any chance this is overblown or that they guy is truly between a rock and a hard place.  With horse prices the way they are, is there anywhere you can go sell them this time of year?  I can't imagine if he's broke he wouldn't have sold them to get some cash to try to save the land.  If he doesn't have the money to feed them, what is he supposed to do?

What's the difference between letting them roam and fend for themselves vs. what is "natural" for wild horses?

I have a hard time believing anyone with the Leachman name could pull this intentionally.

This is a side effect of the horse slaughter ban. 

 

[Cowboy]

I happen to know Jim personally, have gone to several of his past cattle and horse sales during the last 20 odd years, and this is NOT like the man I know.

Jim is an absolute master at breeding selected blood lines to selected blood lines in the horse world. I have several of his past catalogs right here in my office, and to say that he loved his horses would be vast understatement.

Jim did believe that in order for a ranch horse to be a real ranch horse, they had to live and breed like one should. He mentioned in one of these statements that his herd had survived the same way for generations there on his ranch. They have too.

I am not trying to justify what is happening up there TODAY, I can see it is not normal, but I also see some of these would be starving horses, and really don't see the high number of really thin ones in those pictures. I fear that , with this many horses or cows for that matter, the media MAY be hovering over the five head of dead ones and not focusing on the very thing we all know about -- the normal 1% death loss in livestock agriculture.

Feedlots, cow herds, replacement hfrs, and yes goats - sheep and even horses, are not above the averages we all know about.

I love my horses too, but we only have 5 -- and I know what it takes to keep them in great shape and would have it no other way at all. To have 500 head of basicly free ranging breeding animals is a huge undertaking in the horse world. See those brands -- numbers -- on the one gray horse pitcured?? Those are not only birth dates, but sire and dam gentic lines -- ancestry. !

I am going to stick my neck out here and say this -- I will bet you all that Jim is sick to his stomach, and if I know him like I used to -- he is crying himself to sleep right now! This is a shame, as they are not your run of the mill wild mustang herd -- this is living history - I wish I could help preserve some of these mare lines, you simply can not replace them!

Sorry for the ramble, this is too close to home for me I guess -- sorry!

Terry

 

[comercialfarmer]

Since HSUS was mentioned:

I always assume that everyone in the agricultural world understands that HSUS is not really an advocacy group for animal care.  They have great commercials with really sad faces and really sad music.  But they do not in any way support local humane societies or shelters (I can assure you of this as I have worked with several in different states).  So many people are duped into thinking they are supporting shelters across America.  The HSUS is a politically and monetarily motivated organization for a specific agenda which will contradict anyone's principles that raises beef.

States have public officials in place to investigate animal mishandling or abuse and they should be the ones involved, if needed.  

I don't intend to be preachy, but I despise false advertising and I don't like seeing their name associated with anything in agriculture.

 

[blackcows]

I tend to agree with Chambro and Cowboy...I sure want to know more of the story before I start pilling on and adding more fuel to the fire that I'm sure groups like HSUS and PETA would like to see.  I saw these few lines in one of the articles and they really struck me:

Last week, Shepherd Veterinarian Jeff Peila gave about 350 horses in one pasture about two weeks to live if something wasn't done.

However, after looking at them on Sunday, the NILE'S Mills said unseasonably warm weather has melted much of the ice in the pasture, providing drinking water, and exposed some patches of grass.

"The colts have good condition on them and the mares are a little thin," Mills said.

So we go from 350 horse that have two weeks to live to colts with good condition and mares that are a little thin?  It takes a lot for a cow or mare to raise and baby and if you have babies in good condtion and a nursing mare that is a little thin that seem pretty typical.  I certainly don't want to make excuses but it just seems to me like there may be more to the story.  If you spend some time in any cow operation in the west that had 500 cows you could most likely take some take some pictures of some carcasses and some thin cows.

 

[firesweepranch]

I am jumping in with blackcows and cowboy. The mares in the pictures did not look like they are starving, and I have seen many. They look like mares in the last part of a lactation cycle ready to wean a good foal that they fed. Also, did anyone notice the person taking the pictures, and mentioned in the pictures, was the buyer of Leachman's property???  Sounds like he is trying to build a fire here, and they made it quiet clear here that there is a feud between the two families. There is a natural loss, and when you manage that many horses there is bound to be problems. If those horses were cows instead, would any one really care? Cows break legs, and wander around for days to months before being found; but you never hear about it.
Sounds like the ranch was well ran, until he lost it. Where can he put that many horses? Yes, even though the market is crummy, he should have had a fall sale to recoup some money and relieve the grazing pressure on the land. But I can tell you that I WOULD NOT sell any of my mares if I thought I was not going to get for them what I thought they were worth. I have a Playgun granddaughter that is AWESOME, but just can not bring myself to sell her because she is worth more than what I have been offered.
Anyway, I am glad Cowboy spoke up. I feel like this is just a feud between two guys that has no end. I see both sides (if I paid that much money for land to graze my cows, I sure would want the old owner's animals off the property!), and hope it ends quickly.
Oh, and Commercial Farmer; I am pretty sure that EVERYONE who mentioned HSUS is being sarcastic! No on one here that I know of supports HSUS and knows what they truly stand for!

 

[herfluvr]

There are three sides the the story.  His, His and the truth which we may never know.  What we all do know is animals are neglected and allowing a herd to get the the numbers where you don't know where they all are or who is the sire of the foals is mismanagement by the owner.  Period.  The circumstances of getting there are irrellavant at this point.  Both of these parties are at to blame for some things but wouldn't be remarkable for them to be able to part of the solution?  I would challenge them at this point to be the better men and get the job done.  Stop pointing fingers, accept the responsibility and put the pride back in your name. 

As for the HSUS and PETA.  '''''''''''''

 

[justme]

Since HSUS was mentioned:

I always assume that everyone in the agricultural world understands that HSUS is not really an advocacy group for animal care.  They have great commercials with really sad faces and really sad music.  But they do not in any way support local humane societies or shelters (I can assure you of this as I have worked with several in different states).  So many people are duped into thinking they are supporting shelters across America.  The HSUS is a politically and monetarily motivated organization for a specific agenda which will contradict anyone's principles that raises beef.

States have public officials in place to investigate animal mishandling or abuse and they should be the ones involved, if needed.  

I don't intend to be preachy, but I despise false advertising and I don't like seeing their name associated with anything in agriculture.

Being a rancher in Missouri, and feeling the rath of the HSUS...I was speaking with sarcasism.  If you seen the ads ect here in MO, the average person would thing they would be in there helping those horses.  In reality they SHOULD be in there helping.

 

[blackcows]

First hand account and picture from a true advocate for agriculture.  I certianly glad I didnt't jump to any conclusions.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10150134580101189&set=a.77208291188.112602.694281188

 

[SFASUshowman]

There are three sides the the story.  His, His and the truth which we may never know.  What we all do know is animals are neglected and allowing a herd to get the the numbers where you don't know where they all are or who is the sire of the foals is mismanagement by the owner.  Period.  The circumstances of getting there are irrellavant at this point.  Both of these parties are at to blame for some things but wouldn't be remarkable for them to be able to part of the solution?  I would challenge them at this point to be the better men and get the job done.  Stop pointing fingers, accept the responsibility and put the pride back in your name. 

As for the HSUS and PETA.  '''''''''''''

Maybe I missed something, but I read all the articles and I dont recall anyone saying he didnt know who the sire of the foals were, and there are so many because this was once a HUGE breeding operation.  Leachman stated that he didnt know where every horse was because the new landowner kept moving them without telling him.  When you are dealing with this number of acres and animals roaming that many acres, it isnt easy to know where they are all at if someone is moving them withought telling you where they are moving them.  I agree he should have sold some of them probably.  And when you are being foreclosed and losing the ranch in a sherriffs auction, saying you are trying to get money to reclaim the property is not a strategy.  This land wasnt just taken overnight, he should have had a plan on what to do with these animals if this happened when he knew it was coming.  But I think through the feud things are getting blown out of proportion.  I saw all the pictures, and I wouldnt consider any of the horses to be grossly under weight

 

[mlazyj]

The man paid for the grass , Leachman was tresspassing . 500 head of horses! Pull your head out and give it a shake , there is no way you can manage that many horses and do them justice . He might have had some bloodlines , but you weren't buying finished horses . Breeding paper to paper without proving it doesn't meen squat.  you'd be lucky if they were halter broke . This horse market has been tanked for 4 years . He hasn't been getting the price he wanted so he just held on to them . Now he's got no money and a wreck on his hands and he's pissed at the guy who bought his place fair and square.Now you've got a colt crop comeing , how many more head are you going to add to the mess . Leachman has beenin denial for a while , the chicken has just come home to roost . Thanks to the people at the NILE for bailing the horses out , but it's put another black eye on the livestock industry.

There is a fellow in NE Washington who is some what famous for going down the road with Casey Tibbs . He had horses forever and had name recognition . He just pasture bred a bunch of papered horses , never handled them . Herded them into a trailer took them to a hand for 60 days and wanted them broke and sold , He wanted stupid prices for them , because look how they are bred . They were rank pukes that needed to be in a can . Same deal

 

[herfluvr]

Maybe I missed something, but I read all the articles and I dont recall anyone saying he didnt know who the sire of the foals were, and there are so many because this was once a HUGE breeding operation.  Leachman stated that he didnt know where every horse was because the new landowner kept moving them without telling him.  When you are dealing with this number of acres and animals roaming that many acres, it isnt easy to know where they are all at if someone is moving them withought telling you where they are moving them.  I agree he should have sold some of them probably.   And when you are being foreclosed and losing the ranch in a sherriffs auction, saying you are trying to get money to reclaim the property is not a strategy.  This land wasnt just taken overnight, he should have had a plan on what to do with these animals if this happened when he knew it was coming.  But I think through the feud things are getting blown out of proportion.  I saw all the pictures, and I wouldnt consider any of the horses to be grossly under weight
[/quote]

from this site http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/leachman-hairpin-cavvy-c66484.html#comments

THis is one complaint but there are more.  Look at the site.  His mismanagement has gone on for years.  As for not knowing where his stock was due to Mr. Stovall, if you had something of value and you were in financial trouble, wouldn't you want to keep an eye on where ALL your assets were?  Especially when they were on land that you didn't have anymore?  Common sense. 

  2008-05-20 by K. D.  [send email]   


I bought a 2007 filly at the Leachman Cattle Hairpin Cavvy 2007 Production Sale in September. Leachman advertised in the Sale Catalog AND his website that the horses' registrations were "pending." To my surprise and concern, there were no registration papers or even transfer papers waiting for me when I picked the filly up Nov. 1, 2007 -- almost two months after paying in full for the filly. I was assured they were being "processed" as Leachman GUARANTEED those papers and transfers at his expense; however, I learned through Leachman's girlfriend, the Ranch Office Administrator and through AQHA, that not only had Leachman NOT filed the registration application and transfer, he had not even filed his 2006 Stallion Breed reports.

Phone messages, letters and emails to Jim AND Seth went unanswered over the next few months and still no papers for my filly. Finally, I filled out a blank Registration Application and Transfer form, sent those to Leachman along with a self-addressed stamped envelope. I told him I would pay the registration and transfer fees, gave him a one week deadline to sign and date the papers and mail them back to me; otherwise, I would file fraud charges against him. The deadline came and went, so I filed charges which initiated a Montana Dept of Livestock investigation coordinated with Yellowstone County Prosecuting Attorney that is still ongoing. Don't bother with AQHA -- they will DO NOTHING -- regardless of the repeated and open complaints against him.

After I filed the fraud charges, Leachman actually sent me the signed registration application and transfer; however AQHA, of course, would not register the foal without the Stud Report being filed. AQHA sent him a letter telling him to submit that report and, finally, AQHA "recorded" his 2006 Stallion Breeding Report sometime in April 2008. I am waiting on DNA parentage verification so the registration is not complete on my filly. If the DNA does not match, I will never have the foal I bought or its registration papers.

There are several other complaints that I have uncovered as part of my research on Leachman:
1) It appears some buyers have not been able to get registration/transfer papers going back to 2004, maybe longer.
2) It appears Leachman's "leased" stallions may not have had a lease on file with AQHA; therefore, Leachmans would not be authorized agents to sign breeding/registration papers.
3) It appears there are buyers who have had issues with DNA not matching on the horses they bought from Leachman.

On top of all this, it is my understanding Leachman may have lost his leases on the land he boasts about where his horses pasture and graze wild and free. Incredibly, it is my understanding he is also planning to hold another production sale this September. I STRONGLY WARN ANYONE against giving this man ANY money unless you have signed registration AND transfer papers IN HAND, along with possession of the actual horse complete with DNA records! Good luck to all the many others still waiting on their registrations