Judge selection for major shows

[BTDT]

I do not have a dog in the fight, but a recent trip to the Iowa State Fair red angus show got me thinking.  How do other state fairs or major shows, select a judge?  Is it by blind selection, suggestions from breed reps, a list?
Seems odd that a red breeder with several VERY close ties to some exhibitors was selected to judge, and just so happens those close ties apparently paid off.  It also appears many others thought the same thing and thought maybe this judge was a bit out of his league.  One of the most "interesting" shows that I have witnessed over the last 30+ years. 

So my question again is:  How does other major shows, state fairs, expo's, etc, select their judge?  Do they stay within breed? Stay local?   

 

[RyanChandler]

Most associations have a committee who selects.  I've even seen a committee member show in a class with the judge they appointed 

 

[PLKR]

BTDT--Who, in your opinion, should have won the Red Angus heifer show at ISF ?

 

[CAB]

Everybody knows somebody.

 

[shortyjock89]

I get what OP is saying, but I know most of the guys we show under, from state preview all the way up to national shows. My neighbor is judging a very high profile show this fall. If we do well, is it wrong?

 

[cowpoke]

A good judge can leave everything worldly aside when they step into the ring.The problem and we have all seen it is that is very hard to do.Any contest judged by an individual whos opinion is asked for will have someone unhappy and it is not the winners usually the whiners.Commitees usually vote on their choice and then see who will accept.Its more of an honor as usually it wont pay that well when travel plus time away from your operation is considered.

 

[chambero]

In today's world, everybody knows everybody, especially in a world as small as red angus.  That being said, hardly anyone in the upper ends of cattle showing understands the concept of conflict of interest.

There are a few blatant examples out there involving judges - usually ones with kids actively showing.  But most of the time its more of a problem of perception than reality.

Out of curiousity - in this particular case, how did you know the judge knew the kids?  Did it look like the judge was going against obvious better choices?

 

[BTDT]

BTDT--Who, in your opinion, should have won the Red Angus heifer show at ISF ?

I think the female part of the show was judged fair.  Damar had a tremendous set of females and won, rightfully so.  The bull show was/is the issue and this is where the judge had "connections".  Much better bulls left standing (and no, this I am definitely not the only one that thought this.)

 

[BTDT]

I get what OP is saying, but I know most of the guys we show under, from state preview all the way up to national shows. My neighbor is judging a very high profile show this fall. If we do well, is it wrong?

If you do well and deserve it, then no, it is not wrong.  If another animal should have won or placed higher and doesn't because of the connection, then yes, it is wrong.

 

[BTDT]

In today's world, everybody knows everybody, especially in a world as small as red angus.  That being said, hardly anyone in the upper ends of cattle showing understands the concept of conflict of interest.

There are a few blatant examples out there involving judges - usually ones with kids actively showing.  But most of the time its more of a problem of perception than reality.

Out of curiousity - in this particular case, how did you know the judge knew the kids?  Did it look like the judge was going against obvious better choices?

This was not a youth show, but open show.  I and others knew the judge had connections with the exhibitors because it was no secret.  And yes, popular opinion, even among exhibitors that did well, that the judge obviously went against better choices and then did his best to justify his placing's.  Even the stands were buzzing with disbelief. 

As a matter of perception- I went to look at the Champion bull after the show, and did not find the exhibitors anywhere to be found.  The judge was also no where to be found. THAT is perception.


Again, I realize this the show world, and just like an auction, only one man's opinion counts and so be it.  This really isn't a witch hunt on the judge or exhibitors but a seeking of information on how to select proper judges. 
My question is on how judges are selected for major shows.  Chambero, how do the shows you attend or manage select judges?

 

[chambero]

I have no idea on exactly how Texas majors select open show judges.

Junior shows are done by committees, and I don't think breed associations have any input.  I think the state FFA teacher organization makes unsolicited formal suggestions, but how much those suggestions are considered varies from year to year and show to show.  It appears that more care is used on steers to avoid conflicts of interest.  For example, you'll have Texans judging jr heifer shows much more often than steers.

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

I seldom come to this site anymore because of the personal attacks that occur anytime that I post anything. Obviously, BDTD AKA Show Heifer AKA Jennifer Gardner has a serious dislike for me and she has made it her personal goal to run us as individuals and our cattle as well as our business in the ground at every opportunity that she has. Pretty much sounds like a "witch hunt" to me. Only after a friend of mine called me recently did I find this post accusing me of apparently buying off the judge at the Iowa State Fair Red Angus show. I'm sure that Colby Lind will be very interested to know that he has been accused of this by this individual and I personally am offended by the accusation. I would say that the majority of the people exhibiting cattle at the ISF know Colby as he is a past board member of the Iowa Red Angus Assn. of which I am NOT a member. I have never bought anything from him or for him up to this date. Just for the record, the bull that won the show is a bull that was bred and raised on our place. This bull has been successful throughout his show career, placing are as follows Res. Ch Int. 2013 NAILE, Res. Ch. Int. 2014 NWSS, National Res. Ch. Int bull at the 2014 National show in Ft Worth. Grand Ch. Bull 2014 Iowa State Fair, Res. Grand Ch. 2014 NILE and Res. Senior Ch. at the 2014 NAILE. As far as her stating that the bull was unavailable after the show, that is pure B.S. to be as polite as I can. As soon as we were done with the pictures after the show, I took the bull back to the stalls were he stayed until an hour after tie out time, we were the LAST ones out of the barn that night in the Red Angus isle. Aside from taking a few minutes to go to the bathroom, I stayed at the stalls talking with everyone and anyone who came by the stall. It is obvious that this post was geared to be a personal attack on me, my family and our operation, it has not only impugned my character but also the character of the judge. I would certainly think that to do as well as he has done for the last year under multiple judges would be testament enough to combat this attack on us. If anyone would like to further discuss this, my name is Stuart Gilbert and my phone number is 641-919-0196.

 

[aj]

If I remember right.......when I was a director for the Kansas assn.  .......the board was given a choice of three possible judges and we voted on one........for like the state fair. Sometimes one judge worked a couple breeeds. I would like to see breeds lean on defect carriers in shows. For instance.......Shorthorn show in Denver.......you cannot show for champion if you are a carrier of a genetic defect. You could exibit though. To me this might halt the genetic defect deal....a little bit.

 

[Tallcool1]

I seldom come to this site anymore because of the personal attacks that occur anytime that I post anything. Obviously, BDTD AKA Show Heifer AKA Jennifer Gardner has a serious dislike for me and she has made it her personal goal to run us as individuals and our cattle as well as our business in the ground at every opportunity that she has. Pretty much sounds like a "witch hunt" to me. Only after a friend of mine called me recently did I find this post accusing me of apparently buying off the judge at the Iowa State Fair Red Angus show. I'm sure that Colby Lind will be very interested to know that he has been accused of this by this individual and I personally am offended by the accusation. I would say that the majority of the people exhibiting cattle at the ISF know Colby as he is a past board member of the Iowa Red Angus Assn. of which I am NOT a member. I have never bought anything from him or for him up to this date. Just for the record, the bull that won the show is a bull that was bred and raised on our place. This bull has been successful throughout his show career, placing are as follows Res. Ch Int. 2013 NAILE, Res. Ch. Int. 2014 NWSS, National Res. Ch. Int bull at the 2014 National show in Ft Worth. Grand Ch. Bull 2014 Iowa State Fair, Res. Grand Ch. 2014 NILE and Res. Senior Ch. at the 2014 NAILE. As far as her stating that the bull was unavailable after the show, that is pure B.S. to be as polite as I can. As soon as we were done with the pictures after the show, I took the bull back to the stalls were he stayed until an hour after tie out time, we were the LAST ones out of the barn that night in the Red Angus isle. Aside from taking a few minutes to go to the bathroom, I stayed at the stalls talking with everyone and anyone who came by the stall. It is obvious that this post was geared to be a personal attack on me, my family and our operation, it has not only impugned my character but also the character of the judge. I would certainly think that to do as well as he has done for the last year under multiple judges would be testament enough to combat this attack on us. If anyone would like to further discuss this, my name is Stuart Gilbert and my phone number is 641-919-0196.

OUCH!  This post sheds a completely different light on this thread.

Congratulations to you and your family for producing what seems to be a pretty dominant bull!

 

[oakview]

Our state association board used to submit three prospective judges' names to the state fair board for consideration.  They had the final say. 

 

[88AG]

Road warrior I really enjoyed reading your posts wish you would consider coming back to the planet

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

Road warrior I really enjoyed reading your posts wish you would consider coming back to the planet

Honestly 88AG I would probably still be here but I got tired of defending everything and anything that I posted on here. It is a shame that a few people can ruin something that used to be so good for everyone. RW

 

[ROAD WARRIOR]

I seldom come to this site anymore because of the personal attacks that occur anytime that I post anything. Obviously, BDTD AKA Show Heifer AKA Jennifer Gardner has a serious dislike for me and she has made it her personal goal to run us as individuals and our cattle as well as our business in the ground at every opportunity that she has. Pretty much sounds like a "witch hunt" to me. Only after a friend of mine called me recently did I find this post accusing me of apparently buying off the judge at the Iowa State Fair Red Angus show. I'm sure that Colby Lind will be very interested to know that he has been accused of this by this individual and I personally am offended by the accusation. I would say that the majority of the people exhibiting cattle at the ISF know Colby as he is a past board member of the Iowa Red Angus Assn. of which I am NOT a member. I have never bought anything from him or for him up to this date. Just for the record, the bull that won the show is a bull that was bred and raised on our place. This bull has been successful throughout his show career, placing are as follows Res. Ch Int. 2013 NAILE, Res. Ch. Int. 2014 NWSS, National Res. Ch. Int bull at the 2014 National show in Ft Worth. Grand Ch. Bull 2014 Iowa State Fair, Res. Grand Ch. 2014 NILE and Res. Senior Ch. at the 2014 NAILE. As far as her stating that the bull was unavailable after the show, that is pure B.S. to be as polite as I can. As soon as we were done with the pictures after the show, I took the bull back to the stalls were he stayed until an hour after tie out time, we were the LAST ones out of the barn that night in the Red Angus isle. Aside from taking a few minutes to go to the bathroom, I stayed at the stalls talking with everyone and anyone who came by the stall. It is obvious that this post was geared to be a personal attack on me, my family and our operation, it has not only impugned my character but also the character of the judge. I would certainly think that to do as well as he has done for the last year under multiple judges would be testament enough to combat this attack on us. If anyone would like to further discuss this, my name is Stuart Gilbert and my phone number is 641-919-0196.

OUCH!  This post sheds a completely different light on this thread.

Congratulations to you and your family for producing what seems to be a pretty dominant bull!

Amazing how the truth can change a whole scenario isn't it? RW

 

[cowpoke]

If some of the people who are negative would post their name and PH# they would never say a thing.Unfortunately the computer board is a place where people can write untruths and some people are gullible enough to believe them.RW I admire your sticking up for yourself.

 

[Cowboy]

Stu -- you know I have been a steadfast supporter of you, your family, and your entire operation for lots of years. I , as well, have not been on here for a spell for this very same reason. I used to look forward to coming on, responding to as many as 50 requests a week for information pertaining to what I do for a living the last 35 years -- ET . During the last year or so, I have seen more cut downs, bickering, accusations than ever before. If I recall , this board room was started as a result of the very same thing over on Show Steers before Becky finally had had enough and closed the board. I huge loss to all advertisers and hundreds of others.

We got your back pard -- just go forward and do your thing as usual -- you are damn good at it!

Terry