Kicked to the Curb (or Pasture)

[mechanic]

I am new to this board stuff but I will put in some thoughts on this subject. Chambero I will agree that if you haven't had kids of your own to watch while they try their hardest to achieve things in life that are difficult and challenging then you're opinion is limited. I have 2 boys who have begun their show career. The oldest has been at it for 10 years now and the youngest is just in his third year. The hardest thing we do as parents is stand back and watch. The oldest has a natural way about him. The heifers he shows just seem to trust him because he is slow and methodical in his approach. The youngest is happy go lucky and less concerned with the outcome. The Bright lites and the Big City seem to change things sometimes and the outcome unfortunately is out of our hands. We have a heifer that we showed over a dozen times this year and each time she behaved differently. At the last few shows we used some calf-calm on her just to try and make her more predictable. Is she mean? No Way But I think she falls into your Gripey category. I can remember our oldest having the same thing happen to him a few years back and you know what he said as the tears were flowing on the way out of the ring. He said the same thing as your son. "Dad I didn't let go. You know I think he took a Lot of pride in that fact. I know one thing I was sure proud of him.

 

[doubled]

I would definately try a mule, also last year we had the steer from heck and we used Grow and Shine on him, this is not a drug, this did really improve is attitude, we had heard that
the melatonin in it calms a calf, it really does, we fed him the max every day and it sure helped him, also we do use ACE, on heifers I have not known anyone to test them for it,
all it does is calm them, I dont see why its such a big deal (oh know here it comes, Im gonna get yelled at) but I always figured that if it saves a kid from being hurt what does it
harm, its not like you are using air on them or injecting something to make them look better, ace will relax them and their top too. Just a suggestion on the Grow and Shine but
we sure had good luckk with it, it does take a few weeks for it to really take hold on the calf. Also run a radio kinda loud with your show calves, that helps, also have your child
spend tons of time just in the barn with them, playing and creating some noise around them, maybe a good pop on her nose by him would have let her know that he is not afraid of
her also. You definately did the right thing by removing them from the ring and the situation.

 

[red]

boy Show Hef, this is one time when I'm going to have to think of a reply. I was a 4-h advisor, I was a parent of a show kid, we still show & I even have been divorced.
I guess I'm just trying to decided how to reply. I might not even feel it's a battle I want to take. I do know, it's not the same.

thinking as hard as these poor brain damaged cells will allow me
Red

 

[knabe]

three things i see.

one, shows need a hot walker like for horses so we don't have to hold the cattle (just kidding)
two, the jury that made that award is stupid rewarding reverse logic.  sounds like john edwards was the lawyer.  it's past time people woke up.
three, i never saw a calf respond to a mule that kicked and snorted (the calf kicking and snorting), only the one's that braced, and even then it was pretty iffy.  to me what worked best for those was to keep changing people, and if they didn't like the person, there wasn't much you could do., but switch.  being on a team provided this opportunity.  not saying you shouldn't try.  this was observing approx 500 or more animals during college.  one year we had a really bad steer and only one gal could show him, his name was cooter from "dukes of hazard". 

 

[chambero]

Chambero, I've been there myself, many times. For what it's worth, I agree with you completely.

Another thing that many people don't seem to realize is that some kids just struggle with it more than others. Please understand that I'm not implying that Chambero's or anyone else's kids are this way, I'm saying my oldest is. He's been showing since he was 4, he loves animals, and he's not afraid of them. He spends more time with his show calves than most kids, and he works hard at it. But he's not a natural born showman, not one of those people that animals just naturally bond with, not completely at ease in the showring -he has to work hard to make it all come together. You wouldn't know it now, after 10 years he can hang with the best of 'em, but for what seemed like a long time, he could take the gentlest calf in the world out in the ring and half the time it'd look like the calf was at best half-broke and the kid had never seen the calf before. His doctor (who's son also shows) says it his A.D.D.  Whatever the case, more than once other people have said (not directly to us) that obviously that kid never works with his calves, they're never well broke, etc... It's really frustrating  to hear, whether directly or indirectly, in person or online, someone who obviously does not really know your child or their calf or the situation tell you that they just shouldn't be there.

I was one of those kids it didn't come "natural" to.  I didn't start showing calves till high school, and I was so "uncoordinated" my mentor told me I looked like a grasshopper trying to show the first few times out.  My son has grown up around and I think he will be just fine.  He has a two year old heifer with a calf that is just the opposite of the one we kicked out - she loves him to death and will do anything for him.  I trust her with him as much as you would any large animal.  She just tolerates the rest of us.  We've gotten her and her baby back up for him to show at our county show.

Show Heifer - I'll step up and apologize for being a little blunt yesterday in my response to you.  But do you really realize how offensive it can be when you gravitate toward the extreme response to almost anything anyone posts?  When you do it to someone that is in a bad mood to begin with, it results in overly defensive responses to you.  You don't have to immediately accuse someone of being irresponsible and careless on every topic that gets posted.   I don't care that you disagree with how I and many others do things, I made the mention to tranquilizers in the post for the purpose of informing others the situations that they are commonly used for.  They don't make enough difference on "crazy" ones to matter, but they do take the edge off ones that may be ancy away from the barn.  I applaud you for taking time to help other folks kids - we need a lot more of that everywhere.  I do the same thing because I was the beneficiary of it years ago.  But I bet you don't talk to those kids parents in person the way you "talk" on this board.  If you tried that down here you'd get run off in about two seconds.  Its a long distance between being informative, teaching, and laying down the law than just pouncing on any and everyone.  I'm sure we are missing a lot of the intent in your posts due to lack of "nonverbal" communication that you'd see in a conversation with you, but please tone it down a little bit.

 

[red]

(clapping) (clapping) (clapping) (clapping)

Thank you Chambero! I think I'll leave my response to that.

Red

 

[kanshow]

(clapping) (clapping) Chambero!!  We kicked on out last summer for similar reasons.   

 

[cattlejunky]

Been there done that.  We had a heifer that would walk right up to you out in the pasture or in the pen and loved to be loved on.  You could not lead her at all.  She would put the head down and go.  We tried several different things and nothing worked.  She also was kicked to the curb.

 

[knabe]

i have a saying i made up myself, it goes like this, and is not pointed at anyone, yet everyone, including myself, who is a reforming crybaby, anal retentive, jealous, wannabe etc.

those seeking to be offended, will be offended.

i have a second one

those seeking to not offend, will offend.

most sayings or sagacity, can be turned around to mean more than the correct way.

i used to have fun turning people's crank to see how little it took till i figured out it just caused too much grief.  i would much rather have my tongue be too excited to ask questions i stumble all over myself.  happened again today.  gotta love it.  that's like 3 times in a month, a pretty good roll i must say. 

still, a recovering jerk, is still a jerk.  always gotta remember.


here's another trick to play with words or sayings.

intuition  =  in to I shun
paradox = pair o docks

hmm, i have an old poem i'll have to dig up that is almost 100% this dribble.

mostly it just translates into a bunch of crap to get girls to pay attention to me when i was younger.  took a lot of polishing as most of it came out depressing in the early days.

 

[renegade]

Did she show the best out of the animals you had or was it just a heifer show?

 

[SKF]

Was the heifer in heat? We have had a few heifers over the years that are the calmest best animals around until they come in heat and it always seems they come in when we're at a show. My daughter's first heifer I had to a close track of her heat cycle becasue if she was going to come in during a show we did not take because she was awful.  Is there anything that you cna give cattle to stop their heat cycles until your ready to breed them? I remember many years ago when my sister showed horses they would give them something (can't remember what it was called) that stopped the heat cycle while showing them. It is a scary feeling to see a large animal act that with you child. Good Luck to your son in the future!!!

 

[red]

I think if you feed them MGA it stops the cycle. Trouble is I'd be afraid it might effect their fertility in the long run. I know exactly what you mean. My heifer rode both myself & the hubby & it's a scary situation.

Red

 

[chambero]

In this particular instance it wasn't a heat issue.  She was already recently bred.

 

[CAB]

Chambero, I need to ask you, what is the heifer in your avatar out of? She is one go looking rip. Has she calved yet? What did you breed her to? Sorry to change the subject, but I just had to ask. I have liked her from the first time I laid eyes on her pic.LOL.
  May as well ask about the little heifer in your pic also. What's she out of please? Cab

 

[chambero]

The white heifer in my avatar is a Charolais-x cow out of a bull called Troy and a black crossbred cow out of a Magic son.  She had her second calf this fall - a yellow September heifer calf out of Golden Child.  The calf is very long and looks like she will be are on the larger side, but right now doesn't look real thick.  I bred that cow back to Yellow Jacket.  She is a prettier cow in person than she is in the photo.  I think she'll raise me a breed champion steer one of these days at a Texas major if I figure out the right combination.  I think she's that good.

THe little heifer in my original post on this thread is a Golden Child out of a very good six year old Meyer grandaughter.  This is the third heifer calf in a row.  Her previous two babies out of our herd bulls have been some of our top heifer calves the past two years.  My son is finishing showing the first one this year (a baldy heifer that I've pictured on here before). 

This little heifer is getting weaned Sunday and coming to our show barn.  I think she is a very nice little heifer prospect.  In the pasture, she moves wonderfully and actually looks fairly feminine. Not a whole lot of hair, but she has enough.  In the photo I think she looks a little straight, but in person she really doesn't appear that way at all. 

This is the little heifer's maternal sister.  She did pretty well showing as a Chi down here.  She calved this fall to Hard Core and is still in the barn for one more show.  She is super long-fronted and thick.  A little straight on the back legs for a cow (which showed up in her first calf below), but I think she is going to be a steer producer with the right bull.

This is her first calf out of Hard Core.  He is going to be too straight on the back end when he gets heavy I think, but we'll probably play with him for a little while because my five year old already drags him around and I'd face a mutiny if I tried to get rid of him for now.

 

[CAB]

Thanks Chambero. Personally, just looking @ the pic of the baldy hf, I would love to see how Sunseeker would nick with her. She has the breeding & neck that he seems to need. Sunseeker can make some cripples up front, but I think that he may work well on her. Frame may also get to be a factor. I wish that the bull called My Turn was clean. He may be a Heatseeker that is worth paying attention to down the road. I like the predigree for a clubbie bull.

 

[SWMO]

Chambero,  we had a beautiful Kadabra heifer that was just great at home loved the attention broke out great.  Took her to a fitting clinic and she bolted off the trailer rolled me and two hours later  down a major street and across a Wal Mart parking lot we finally got her cornered and had to rope her.  The guy that came to rope her said wow she's halter broke!  Understatement of the year.  Tried hauling her several times to the neighbors with the same results she would bolt off the trailer totally bonkers. Was quite the embarrassing time for me.  It looked like we had never worked with this heifer.  Needless to say she is a great momma cow.  Still loves to be scratched in the pasture just don't take her out of her comfort zone.  It was a horrible experience for my kids and also for me.  My husband just didn't believe that she could have acted like that.  I remember him saying what did you do to her like I was mean to her or something.  When he got rolled off the trailer he understood what I was saying. 

 

[renegade]

I was just asking cause i was wondering if there was a different animal that would have worked for showmanship or if she (when she isnt being a brat ... like us girls can be  (lol)) was the best showmanship animal

 

[DL]

Cattle are not stupid beasts – in fact they are really quite smart. Unfortunately humans often fail to realize this or fail to be able to read or understand what they are saying. In general most cattle are not vile or mean and don’t intend to do harm. In fact cattle in general do a pretty good job of telegraphing their intentions. The problem is that most humans are not really good readers or figure their desires are more important than what the animal wants to do. Like working with dogs or horses or cattle, they will tell you – but you have to listen.

I am pretty much reminded of how poorly people understand what cattle are saying on a daily basis. Most of the stupid human tricks do not result in severe injury but they could. Not all that long ago I was preg checking cows while other cows were being rounded up by the owner on a 4 wheeler. It was cold and miserable and icy and apparently the boss cow fell. They thought she broke her leg. After preg checking we walked out to look at her to see if there was anything that could be done for her as she was way far along – I was so busy looking at her leg that it wasn’t until it started moving really fast that I looked up and saw the whites of her eyes and she was meaning to kill me.  Never been charged by a cow before – especially in a large completely flat open no cover field – instinct took over and I screamed and ran to the left (good thinking on my part in retrospect, her left leg was broken and she couldn’t pivot left) – I was told she brushed against my chest – I have a weird and huge misshapen bruise on my left calf which I think was from the flailing broken left foreleg hitting me. Now she told me long before she decided she wanted to kill me that was her intention and I as the stupid human was looking at her leg, assessing the fracture – I didn’t listen and that was the problem.

I think that most times that is the problem. We humans think we are masters of everything – we will make it go our way – we are in control. Don’t want to be a show heifer – we will make you. I think it is particularly important when we are dealing with little kids that we listen to what their animals are telling us – they are the most vulnerable, the least strong, the less experienced. I have seen really severely handicapped kids show cattle – what is the trick? Not ace, but a calm heifer that adores the kid. An older sib who is willing to walk in the ring and who is willing to drag this heifer around and expose her to everything. Cattle are not stupid and there are some really special kid-heifer relationships that other people just don’t seem to get.  IMVHO what little kids need for show heifers is what riders call a “husband horse” – bomb proof – when they get older and develop more skills let them tackle the less placid ones. But to find the husband horse you have to understand horse, and the same with cattle.

The breeder I got my Terv from told me that she was the best moving female she had ever produced – that from a movement and structure stand point this Terv could be best in show BUT the breeder read the dog and knew she wouldn’t like the noise and commotion of being a show dog – now she could have made her into a show dog – it would have been a fight, no one would have been happy, but she might have gotten the BIS – but she decided it was not worth it (for either herself or the dog) and so she had her spayed and she became mine. This breeder knew what the dog’s qualities and personality were and where she would be most happy.

Most of us in the cattle business do not consider this and do not do it.

Chambero I am glad that you son survived physically and emotionally. But your heifer, while under the influence of ace, stomped on your 8 year-old sons foot. She was sending you a message, and you did not listen. In fact, she had sent you several messages– and you were ignoring them all.

So I suspect that some of your anger and bad mood is in reality at yourself for failing to realize what was going on, and for putting your son in a potentially dangerous situation.

Usually the cows tell us, it is just that as humans we haven’t learned to listen to them.

 

[Telos]

Thought provoking. I still wish other people could learn to understand other people let alone a bovine.