Lautner's Hereford.

[DakotaCow]

Yesterday I checked Lautners website and saw the new Hereford cross bull out of Heat Seeker, couldnt stop laughing long enough to start this post then so im just asking what people think of him. P.S I was laughing because I for one never pictured them promoting a hereford influence bull and especially one with horns. So before you rip into me about herefords and anything else just realize I know very little about this bull, and would like to find out more. I have not formed an official opinion on him, only after seeing his calves will I form one too.

 

[Dusty]

The thing is with the herefords is that all they have to do is look like one in order to show hereford down south.  Thats the appeal of this bull.  That he has a great phenotype and that he should sire hereford marked calves that are really only 1/4 hereford.  The Oklahoma boys eat up them good hereford looking cattle.  No one really cares what the pedigree is as long as it will classify hereford.

 

[herefordfootball]

LMAO!!! Another Crooked Herf!!! Wow what else is new!!!??? I guess he might be good for color classified shows. IDK, until he it is proven that he throws the herf pattern I wouldnt bother using him, but personally I dont use crossed herfs so I found no interest in him.

 

[CPL]

As a Hereford Breeder, I don't like him. Infact I really don't like any of the Hereford Crosses that have been promoted. Well I take that back now, I did like Big Jake some.

He's got alot of muscle, lots of bone and good width, but I bet he'd give up some on practicality. I guess you could probably make that arguement of alot of clubby bulls though.

I do appreciate this line though

making him a perfect choice for Hereford marked steers

I see alot of folks on this board and in real life calling crossbreds thats LOOK like Herefords - Herefords. I guess it really doesn't matter, but to me as a Hereford breeder its just nit picking.

 

[aj]

This is why I say....say herfords will have th floating around out there. Someone will use a bull like this in the back country and 5 generations from now th will appear in a grand champion Herford bull. Shazam. Thats the thing about th is that it has a pro showring look to it and it will appear in all the breeds. Thats the question on the deal...if we don't put a stop to th it will float around forever. Don't tell me we won't need to test Herfords for th.

 

[herefordfootball]

This is why I say....say herfords will have th floating around out there. Someone will use a bull like this in the back country and 5 generations from now th will appear in a grand champion Herford bull. Shazam. Thats the thing about th is that it has a pro showring look to it and it will appear in all the breeds. Thats the question on the deal...if we don't put a stop to th it will float around forever. Don't tell me we won't need to test Herfords for th.

Exactly!!! There are no true herefords with TH, but there are so many people crossing them up these days that sooner or later it's gonna be in the breed wether we like it or not. 

 

[aj]

Exactly.

 

[CJC]

This is why I say....say herfords will have th floating around out there. Someone will use a bull like this in the back country and 5 generations from now th will appear in a grand champion Herford bull. Shazam. Thats the thing about th is that it has a pro showring look to it and it will appear in all the breeds. Thats the question on the deal...if we don't put a stop to th it will float around forever. Don't tell me we won't need to test Herfords for th.

Exactly!!! There are no true herefords with TH, but there are so many people crossing them up these days that sooner or later it's gonna be in the breed wether we like it or not. 

Just to add something else. There will eventuality be no fullblood or purebreds out there; they will be all crossed up. Just an example alot of people in my area are going with Brangus-Maines. 

 

[Josh]

Whats this bulls name?

 

[FutureBreeder2013]

red rock

 

[BIGTEX]

Looks like he could make some really good baldies! I wonder if there are any good maternal traits on the bottom side?

 

[TMJ Show Cattle]

My god some of you guy's just floor me. Crossing of herefords didn't just happen last night. I wouldn't think a hereford breeder would use a bull like this,but since very very few herefords that are purebred can raise a steer that can compete,they work great for the clubby market. Kris Black and a whole host of others have done it for years. Texas and Oklahoma gets yelled at for how they classify hereford steers. That is nonsense,since very few of the people down there gripe about that. If it weren't for the classification as it is, there would be NO hereford steer show,because there isn't enough true herefords around.Besides all of that, it creates more classes of steers,and more kids get the opportunity to show.Besides all of that,if the hereford and Angus were as progressive as they would like everybody to think they are,they would do as several of the other breeds have done and create a percentage class.I think the bull looks good,I'll call him a hereford,get "thumped" by the hipocrits,use him on black cows and smile as I go to the bank,and shake my head and laugh when a hereford "breeder"finally decides to inject some Maine blood into his "clubby"hereford cows[is there such a thing?] and laughs as he heads to the bank.

 

[aj]

I am not a pureist as far as purebreds are concerned. There have been honest mistakes as well as dishonest mistakes in parentage over the years. I have read that it is thought that there is a 10% mistakeism in all pedigrees. You have neighbors bulls jumping fences....you have the natural vs. ai date confusion....you have maine in some shorthorns and amerifax in Angus and on and on. However my point is this. We now have heatwave or seeker in every breed in the U.S.A. We almost need a special breed assciocation for the bull. He is a TH CARRIER. This is a defect not a purebredism issue. What started out as a Shorthorn unique defect problem is sweeping the showring cattle of all breeds. I don't know whose fault it is but IT IS A FACT. We have a sire who is a cow killer with an iffy disposition and is a TH carrier that people can't get enough of. Someone needs to write a book on Heat Wave and his huge influence. It is going to be a problem for all breed asscioations to handle. The camels nose is under the tent.

 

[herefordfootball]

My god some of you guy's just floor me. Crossing of herefords didn't just happen last night. I wouldn't think a hereford breeder would use a bull like this,but since very very few herefords that are purebred can raise a steer that can compete,they work great for the clubby market. Kris Black and a whole host of others have done it for years. Texas and Oklahoma gets yelled at for how they classify hereford steers. That is nonsense,since very few of the people down there gripe about that. If it weren't for the classification as it is, there would be NO hereford steer show,because there isn't enough true herefords around.Besides all of that, it creates more classes of steers,and more kids get the opportunity to show.Besides all of that,if the hereford and Angus were as progressive as they would like everybody to think they are,they would do as several of the other breeds have done and create a percentage class.I think the bull looks good,I'll call him a hereford,get "thumped" by the hipocrits,use him on black cows and smile as I go to the bank,and shake my head and laugh when a hereford "breeder"finally decides to inject some Maine blood into his "clubby"hereford cows[is there such a thing?] and laughs as he heads to the bank.

TMJ, purebred herds do exist, our farm is one example. And no you wont laugh and shake your head because I will never cross a hereford to get a phenotypically better animal. And yes purebred herefords can compete. BELEIVE ME THEY CAN. No they arent going to breed your crossbreds, but I have seen it happen.  I think purposely introducing maine or shorthorn genetics into the breed will eventually ruin it, I'm not shooting at you maine or shorthorn guys, but now there is TH in the hereford breed. It's probaly been there for a while though. And guess what if you want some purebred herefords that can compete because you think they are so rare, come see me and I will set you up with one wether it comes from me or a friend of mine within the breed. If kids arent getting the oppurtunity to show herefords because there arent of enough well  (lol) . If they cant find a hereford steer anywhere they obviously arent utilizing all of their resources.

 

[Jill]

I think the point TMJ is trying to make is a true Hereford or Angus steer will not compete in a final steer line up, I can tell you iin Kansas you may win your breed with a Hereford or Angus steer, but the final drive is just for sportsmanship, they don't stand a chance. 

 

[Cattledog]

I think the point TMJ is trying to make is a true Hereford or Angus steer will not compete in a final steer line up, I can tell you iin Kansas you may win your breed with a Hereford or Angus steer, but the final drive is just for sportsmanship, they don't stand a chance. 

They don't stand a chance.  You and TMJ are absolutely correct.  However, If you raise these two breeds your number one goal isn't to raise a show steer.  I have never bred a cow a certain way because I thought the calf would be a good steer.  I am always looking at the heifer aspect of it.  I have seen angus heifers compete with the Maines, Chi's, and Shortys. 

TMJ said that if the Angus and Hereford breeds were progressive they would have a percentage program.  Do you mean appendix?  Just currious.  I myself would like to see something like that but it will probably never happen in tha Angus and Hereford breeds.  I've had quite a few shorthorn guys tell me that the reason there is an appendix program is to generate more money for the association.  If that is the driving point I don't see the Angus and Hereford associations buying into it.  They are pretty rich as far as registations go.

 

[simtal]

I've had quite a few shorthorn guys tell me that the reason there is an appendix program is to generate more money for the association.  If that is the driving point I don't see the Angus and Hereford associations buying into it.  They are pretty rich as far as registations go.

That's the idea for most grading up programs, maintain payroll. I don't think you can have too much money but do you realize the staff that would be needed to support an appendix program for angus would be as big as the registered part.

 

[Cattledog]

I've had quite a few shorthorn guys tell me that the reason there is an appendix program is to generate more money for the association.  If that is the driving point I don't see the Angus and Hereford associations buying into it.  They are pretty rich as far as registations go.

That's the idea for most grading up programs, maintain payroll. I don't think you can have too much money but do you realize the staff that would be needed to support an appendix program for angus would be as big as the registered part.

I didn't think about that. 

 

[Jill]

Cattledog, I 100% agree with you, you have to know what your markets are and Angus normally have an edge when it comes to the heifer side of things. 
As far as a percentage deal I really don't agree on that, Angus and Hereford have a purpose in the cattle industry and the only place a % program comes into play is in the show ring, all of the breeds bring something to the table when you are looking at a commercial crossbreeding program, when all of the breeds go to a percentage deal what we are left with is a bunch of crossbred animals, why bother with an association or registry at that point.  All you have to do is look at the Maines to know what a percentage deal can do in a relatively short period of time, what they are today is a crossbred association not quite as bad as the Chi's, but we seem to be headed that direction, we have added some good traits, but they really are no longer Maines.

 

[DLD]

My god some of you guy's just floor me. Crossing of herefords didn't just happen last night. I wouldn't think a hereford breeder would use a bull like this,but since very very few herefords that are purebred can raise a steer that can compete,they work great for the clubby market. Kris Black and a whole host of others have done it for years. Texas and Oklahoma gets yelled at for how they classify hereford steers. That is nonsense,since very few of the people down there gripe about that. If it weren't for the classification as it is, there would be NO hereford steer show,because there isn't enough true herefords around.Besides all of that, it creates more classes of steers,and more kids get the opportunity to show.Besides all of that,if the hereford and Angus were as progressive as they would like everybody to think they are,they would do as several of the other breeds have done and create a percentage class.I think the bull looks good,I'll call him a hereford,get "thumped" by the hipocrits,use him on black cows and smile as I go to the bank,and shake my head and laugh when a hereford "breeder"finally decides to inject some Maine blood into his "clubby"hereford cows[is there such a thing?] and laughs as he heads to the bank.

TMJ, purebred herds do exist, our farm is one example. And no you wont laugh and shake your head because I will never cross a hereford to get a phenotypically better animal. And yes purebred herefords can compete. BELEIVE ME THEY CAN. No they arent going to breed your crossbreds, but I have seen it happen.  I think purposely introducing maine or shorthorn genetics into the breed will eventually ruin it, I'm not shooting at you maine or shorthorn guys, but now there is TH in the hereford breed. It's probaly been there for a while though. And guess what if you want some purebred herefords that can compete because you think they are so rare, come see me and I will set you up with one wether it comes from me or a friend of mine within the breed. If kids arent getting the oppurtunity to show herefords because there arent of enough well  (lol) . If they cant find a hereford steer anywhere they obviously arent utilizing all of their resources.

TMJ is absolutely right on this one.  I grew up in the Hereford business, and there've been cattle around that were pretty well known and accepted to have some outside influence for as long as I can remember (that'd be back to the 70's anyway).  Charolais, Simmental, Maine, Chi, Red Holstein have all been injected into the Hereford and Polled Heredford breeds at some point.  Am I the only one here that's been around long enough to remember Perfection???  

Herefordfootball, I'm not saying you (your family, whoever) have done so intentionally, but unless you've run a completely closed herd for many, many generations, or bought cattle only from such herds,
you almost certainly do indeed have more than just Hereford in your herd.  If you think that of all the cattle at Tulsa at the Junior Nationals (just for instance) were as pure as the driven snow, you're being very naive indeed.  And if you think that over the years those cattle don't sift out through the whole Hereford business, that's being pretty naive as well.  That's not to say that your cattle, or 95% of those at the show won't dna test correctly back to their pedigrees, but somewhere back down the way, a whole lot of them (not every single one, but a whole lot of 'em) will eventually trace back one or two or ten times to that 5% that got a little outside influence.

30 years ago, a fourth of the cattle at this years Junior National wouldn't have classified. Huge red rings around the eyes (not just pigment), multiple softball sized red spots on the face, 4 solid white legs, white in the flank that comes a third of the way up the body, ears big enough to fly with...   Has all that been hidden in the breed for 3 decades and just now decided to pop out???

Did anyone happen to see the Grand steer at Louisville last year?

Edited to add - And by the way, many of those same cattle I was talking about at the Junior National wouldn't classify at a steer show in Texas today, either.