Libya?

[hamburgman]

What is everyone's thoughts on the involvement in Libya?  I am torn right now over the whole deal.

 

[chambero]

We are probably overstepping what we should be doing.  But the key thing is the UN waited to intervene until the Arab League asked them to do so.  We have to support the UN.  Libya is a former French colony and has always had closer ties to them than any other European/western country.  U.S. is following France's lead on this.  France has a different set of leaders than the ones that didn't back us much in Iraq.

 

[PaFFA Proud]

IMHO we should have just kept American force out of there. We have enough issues without adding another enemy. With no jobs, prices climbing on gas and food, and other issues were facing in the grand Ol' USA. We are never going to get better. :-\

 

[hamburgman]

I don't think Sarcozy is a big Iraq fan though either, i remember him during the debates being very careful on that issue. 

 

[chambero]

We've been trying to get democracy - or some early form of it - going in the middle east for a long time.  We really can't back down now and refuse support once the people get the courage to rise up.  We pulled that back in the 60s in Cuba during the Bay of Pigs and got a bunch of people killed.

The African muslim nations are much different culturally than those in southwest Asia.  They are much more "European" and have had much closer contact - going back to the Roman empire.  

 

[chambero]

I don't think Sarcozy is a big Iraq fan though either, i remember him during the debates being very careful on that issue. 

Finding "Iraq fans" is a hard thing to do anywhere in the world these days - including here.  I still think we did the right thing and things have settled down dramatically. 

In reality, you could say that our approach of planting the seed to get rid of dictatorships in that part of the world has worked.  Hardly any countries are willing to take a long term view on things.  This took 10 years.  In reality, that is pretty fast for lighting a fuse for massive culture change - especially across multiple countries.

 

[mark tenenbaum]

I don't think Sarcozy is a big Iraq fan though either, i remember him during the debates being very careful on that issue. 

Finding "Iraq fans" is a hard thing to do anywhere in the world these days - including here.  I still think we did the right thing and things have settled down dramatically. 

In reality, you could say that our approach of planting the seed to get rid of dictatorships in that part of the world has worked.  Hardly any countries are willing to take a long term view on things.  This took 10 years.  In reality, that is pretty fast for lighting a fuse for massive culture change - especially across multiple countries.///// A much better outlook than alot of people want to admit-or cannot see yet. You are right,even if it only goes half way-Agendas change dramatically in those "cultures"-but at least the control of thier rescources wont be in the hands of some murderous thieving rugbeaters-just newly powerfull rugbeaters- who will (grudgingly) need our help-as we need thier oil. To me, the most impressive thing is how the internet has educated these people-they just arent going to go back to the stoneage if they can help it and not be killed for being infedels for thinking above the level of a camel O0 O0 O0

 

[peachy]

Is democracy when the corporations take over a country? I think we need to stay out of it and let the people decide what form of government they want . What country is going to save us from Obama?

 

[knabe]

there is a generation missing between the mullah's and the youth.  as such, there will be less dependence on the robin hood religion of peace when they find out that a diversified economy works better than one dependent upon a single commodity that is easily managed by a central planning committee.  once they find that out, there is absolutely no use for subjugating women.  in fact, they will need them to compete in the global economy.  as the structure exists now with their massive pyramid scheme, when that collapses, the current use of women, ie a drag on the economy, will no longer be tolerated and their culture will flower as women begin to participate and generate revenue and respect.  perhaps the men will start wearing burka's out of embarrassment for subjugating women for so long.  only the real men, who can compete with women on an even footing will be proud enough to stand beside them rather than in front of them in their way or behind them in fear.

 

[hamburgman]

good point Knabe, I hope Egypt and the other countries learn from the South American countries and realize that an economy based on commodities is very sporadic and unstable for long term economic growth.

 

[american honey]

Knabe, what do you mean? And also my opion on the whole situation in Libya is over dramatic. With research I found that Libya only supplies 2% of the World's oil, so therefor gas should not be so expensive. I believe that the United States is just looking for trouble, but when haven't been looking for it? Drama seems to be very common these day in Washington. And kids at my school think drama is bad here...compared to what's happening throughout the world, it's nothing compared!

 

[chambero]

In economic terms, 2% is a very, very big deal.

 

[JbarL]

there is a reason why amercians never layed boots on the ground in muslium nations in our short 200 years history...no matteer what was going on...ie iran/lebenon/olympics "incidents"...untill george bush number 1....with the first attack in iraq..to protect lybia's boprder and protect the flow of allied oil....shortly after that we have 9/11.....then the question comes out..." do we want to fight them there or fight them here"...??..and the past admistration decided it wa better to fight them there...we have been fighting them here since even before the first invasion of iraq.( the gulf war)..they are here because we are there.( iran iraq/lybia /yemen/ saudia arabia/eqypt....adding another muslum nation to our list of new muslium "allies" with bombs and the resources needed to either oust or kill the leader, will rally the youth in lybia,and other muslium nations ,  but further intice the muslium extremists to respond....you will see a different kind of amercian involvement in the months to come as amercia now takes a  backseat in the  future liberation of muslium countries with the backing of the rest of the world....time has finally come for a   leader to assist in world reform  without  declaring war as a nation and completely taking the responsibility of fighting a ground war using our citizens...jbarl

 

[knabe]

i seem to remember fighting over there before to good effect.  i also remember jefferson being anti involvement in just about everything foreign except getting drunk in europe on the taxpayer dime to adams' consternation.

also, i remember

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

i also remember a guy, charles the hammer not going far enough and his progeny had problems in constantinople, right or wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Martel

 

[OKshorthorn]

i seem to remember fighting over there before to good effect.  i also remember jefferson being anti involvement in just about everything foreign except getting drunk in europe on the taxpayer dime to adams' consternation.[/url

You can't dog on my man Thomas like that....He was just trying to save some money while trying to marry Mrs. Cosway!

 

[irh]

Okay, How many millions is this costing us a day that we will have to borrow?  We've got highways going to hell, prices soaring, and we stick our nose in again.  Kn ow wonder the other country's hate us.  We don't fix our own problem's why do we always have to be the first to go into other country's problems.  Maybe the Donald is right, it's time these countries start paying us back, maybe in some cheaper oil for example.

 

[shortyjock89]

Millions are the new pennies to the Gov't.  Less than pennies, even.  We had to join in because some we took a stance to promote democracy in the Middle East (which many consider North Africa to be a part of), and now it was time to crap or get off the pot. Not saying its right or wrong, but when you take a stand as a country and a propagator or an ideology, you should probably act when you say you will or at least back up your ideas.  I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm just saying anything can be rationalized. 

 

[chambero]

I really doubt any of our leaders - President or republican or democratic congressman - really wanted to to do this.  However, here you have people with the nerve to rise up in the face of certain death.  If we believe those people are in the right - you have to back them - especially if you've been encouraging it.  There were some uprisings in Iraq after the first Gulf War that we left hanging out to dry - and they were squashed by Sadaam.  The few relatives that survived hate us to this day for it. 

No different than France backing us in our Revolution, the British backing the Confederacy (that didn't work out too well for them), us backing Chang Kai Shek against the Japanese early on, and Russia backing China and North Korea during their revolutions.  Viet Nam was largely the mess it was because we decided we didn't want to back their government enough.

However, I'll never understand why we don't make them pay us back to the extent they can when it works out.  There was a reason looting was invented.  

 

[Telos]

I hope we don't appear to be doing France's dirty work. Obama's adviser's will play this too conservative like always, but Washington knows about 95 % more then any of us. It looks to be real touchy.

We should have nuked the mountains in Afghanistan and got it over with. We are always knit-picking these wars and everyone now knows are weakness.

 

[hamburgman]

Former colonizers always seem to be a little worried about their former colonies it seems, i think that is why France is so heavily involved.  I guess i feel something needed to be done to get rid of him, but the situation is far from idea, i guess that is called reality.  I honestly can't figure out the critics like Hannity on this issue, he was squawking about not having a no fly zone in Libya, tonight he is complaining because it could be helping Al-Qaeda (which I would like to see real proof of).