Luck using two different sires on a Flush

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Freddy

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Mar 31, 2007
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North central -- Nebraska on highway 183 - 30 mi
Have tried using WYO WIND  1 unit  with  Carnac in two different flushes ,used 2 of Carnac and so far get all Wyoming Wind calves ,is the semen that much better ....Used Progress  bull with wALK aLONE  semen and got all Progress calves, so far out of 15 eggs all calves have been pure Charolais ..
Used Charolais cow on all flushes ..Any body else have any experience doing this ....
 

Shady Lane

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Freddy,

From my very limited experience using two sires in a flush I have also found that the majority of the calves seem to have been sired by one sire bull or the other and not nearly an even split.

I am unsure if it is timing, luck of the draw, semen quality or some other more scientific reason.

Maybe Cowboy or somebody with more expeirience can give us a better answer?
 

SEA

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Dec 29, 2008
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Are you breeding your donor cow 2 or3 three times?  Also, in what order are you using which semen?  In other words do you always breed with the Charolais semen first then the clubby bull second breeding?  Or not?  If semen cost is not prohibitive have you considered discussing with you "Flushing Vet or Company", the possibility of using four or six units of semen for each flush?  One each of Charolais and clubby bull, each time she is bred.  ??? 

 

MCC

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Freddy, I know I'm showing my ignorance here, but why do you flush a cow to two different sires instead of flushing her twice to each sire? I have heard of several people doing this but don't understand why.
 

vcsf

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MCC said:
Freddy, I know I'm showing my ignorance here, but why do you flush a cow to two different sires instead of flushing her twice to each sire? I have heard of several people doing this but don't understand why.

I can not speak for Freddy but I know of people using two sires in cases where they would like to flush to one bull but are concerned about the semen quality so use the second bull as well rather than risk getting more unfertilized embryos.  It is also done at times with very expensive or extremely rare semen.
 

HGC

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Freddy,

What order did you put the semen in, in relation to standing heat?  All at the same time? Or were they at 12 hour intervals? or something else?

Just curious if time of semen placement might have something to do with it.
 

Cowboy

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McCook Ne.
Jamie -- every one here that knows me, will know that I only breed the donors ONE time, with two units of semen, deposited into the uterin horn a little ways up.

Timing is absolutely EVERYTHING, even if some of these guys breed several times, you are only going to get the fertilization you need if done at the RIGHT time.

When I am asked to flush to two different bulls, it is pretty easy really. I simply place one bull (1 unit ) in the left horn, and the other side getts the other bull. For one thing, if the timing was not correct, you would get all ALL unfertilized no matter what you did. Forget the early breedings, especially shortly after first standing or during standing, you are asting your time and semen. I breed the cows almost every time at least 6 hours AFTER they get done standing, and are tired of it all.

When we go to flush this way, all you have to do is have your facility change filters on each horn, assuming they actually flush each horn seperately ( the most accurate way to get all of the eggs). Once you do this, you will see the difference from one bull or the other. I would bet you, if done this way and both bulls going into different horns at the same time, you will not see the same variance in fertile eggs. I've done it for years, it works good! At birth, I have yet to see a calf from one of the bulls not be what was expected as far as sire. Maybe I am just lucky, but done right, it works well!

Good luck Freddy and every one else!

Terry
 

Shady Lane

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Thanks for the information Terry, that is good to know.

I am unsure of the technique used in the breeding of the multiple sire flushes I was dealing with as I was only there when the resulting embryos were implanted and when the recips calved, not when the breeding was done or the flush was performed.

In my experience there were more resulting calves from one sire than the other, I suppose that could have been because of more ovum being produced on one side as compared to the other, semen quality or just the law of averages at play.

I'm unsure.
 

flacowman

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I will almost guarantee you that Wyo Wind's semen will be better quality that any clubby bull's any time.  We have massive fertility in our wind calves and most sons test extremely fertile at WEANING.  Yes we check a few at weaning just to see and have yet to test a wind calf that wasn't fertile at 7 months old
 

Freddy

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North central -- Nebraska on highway 183 - 30 mi
I sure appreciate  all the info and interest  in this subject, especially your expert opinion  Terry and some of the rest of you that have had some experience also ...\
I used to bulls to back up some of the clubby semen I used and I guess I backed it up pretty good and didn't get any ...
 
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