Lutalace Questions...

[bradycreek]

I need to move a cow up.
She will calve End of June.  Should I wait a few days after calving then give her a shot of lutalce and put her in with the bull.
Won't this get her to start cycling quicker?
Not going to mess with the AI on this one 1  since its ultra important to get her back with the other cows.
My Goal is to get her bred by Aug 1 to get a first part of May calf.
Any other suggestions that don't cost a fortune.
Thanks
Don

 

[CAB]

  Kick her in with the clean up bull, don't lute her until @ the very minimum 30 days, better @ 45 days, but realize that if you don't watch herb everyday that she could come into heat and breed and settle, and by shooting her with lute you would abort that fetus. I hope that this makes sense to you. BTW, you had the "BEST", worst 5 bulls. IOM. LOL.

 

[Jill]

I agree with CAB, if you aren't going to AI, don't lut, just put her in with the bull and let her come in heat naturally.

 

[kanshow]

I agree with CAB & Jill on the bull & no lute.

Make sure she is in good condition & on a good mineral program too.   

 

[bradycreek]

Why not---is their a health problem besides the obvious of stressing and trying to get one to settle so soon after birth.

How bout this.  If I give Lutalace to an open cow that has been cycling in all reality she should come into heat within 4 days right. And if not then approx 21 days latter.

Yeah CAB--I don't like to be negative of others stuff I though Humor was in order.
I can easily be that way on my own stuff...
Heck--most of the worst bulls listed I'd of been pround as ......to raise myself.
Don

 

[Jill]

Most cows will not settle any sooner than 45 days after calving regardless of how you get them to come back in, it just takes time for the body to get back to normal function, my embryologist won't use a recip under 60 days from calving.  I may be wrong on this but it is my understanding that if they aren't cycling on their own lut isn't going to get them to cycle anyway.

 

[Kenny]

The point is that one cow has been cycling, but the one you are talking about hasn't yet. Have had success with putting in cidrs in cow under 30 days post calving and getting them bred, Helps jump start some.

 

[DL]

Cows in good condition, on good mineral and who have no problems with calving can cycle and get bred 30 days after calving. No it is not ideal but if there are no problems it should not be a big deal for the cow. You may have more luck moving her up with CIDRs - if you CIDR her to cycle about 40 to 45 days that should work out OK. There should be no problem breeding a cow between 30 and 60 days, putting in embryos and moving up a cow by breeding early require slightly different things

 

[bradycreek]

What is the approx cost of a CIDR--this cow is an easy keeper and in good shape with free choice salt and mineral.

Question #2
How bout this.  I am going to give Lutalace to open cows that I want to AI. They calved in Feb.  If they have been cycling in all reality if I give them a shot of lutalace they should come into heat within 4 days right. And if not then approx 21 days latter.
Just trying to get it straight as good management can save time and money.
dh

 

[CAB]

 BC, there are actually cows that will cycle in about 20 days post calving. I would not try to AI a cow @ 20 days post, but heck, I would let the bull have some fun. When you stop to think about what your 1st question was, There's a lot that has to happen with the cows reproduction system after calving, ie. just think about the uterus having to get shrunk back down & into shape to carry another calf along with all the hormonal changes. That's why the 45 day rule is kinda standard, but I have tried to push it to 30 days then cidr, which gets you close to 40 days post to actually breed her.
 If you have a heifer/cows post calving 45 plus days, you can lute and breed off of standing heat, non responsive cows would get a second shot of lute on day 11 & breed off of standing heat on the 2nd shot. There are a few cows that depending on where they are @ in their cycle will be nonresponsive to the 1 shot lute program. If you want your cows to calve tighter just plan on a 2 shot lute program and breed off of standing heats after the second shot.
  Cidrs are between 9&10 dollars last I checked. I hope that this post answers some of your questions. Brent

 

[bradycreek]

Thanks CAB
I planned on giving the open cows a shot of lut then giving a second shot if needed so I can tighten them up. I've been calving since sept and still have 4 to go. When I bought the herd they were scattered and I knew it. Anyway tying to get back on track.

I think with the 4 still bred I'll let them in with the bull after calving and watch em. If they don't cycle within 40 days might try a cidr. Hope that plan works.
Thanks again
Don

 

[DL]

What is the approx cost of a CIDR--this cow is an easy keeper and in good shape with free choice salt and mineral.

Question #2
How bout this.  I am going to give Lutalace to open cows that I want to AI. They calved in Feb.  If they have been cycling in all reality if I give them a shot of lutalace they should come into heat within 4 days right. And if not then approx 21 days latter.
Just trying to get it straight as good management can save time and money.
dh

Should be AOK then. CIDRs - CAB is correct 9 to 12 depending on if you buy the pack or individuals or where you get them. Yes the cycling cows should come into heat approx 4 days after lutalyse assuming they had a CL at the time of the shot or they were ready to cycle (or that they are more or less 7 days after the last heat) - good luck

 

[Jill]

Good plan, that's what we do on late calvers and the bull rarely misses on the 1st heat

 

[justintime]

A few years ago, i kept 10 late calving cows ( all in May) on a few acres around our feedlot to keep the grass down for a few weeks after they calved. I had heard that CIDRs could be used more than once so i decided to experiment with these cows. The CIDRs I used had been used twice previously, and I used them in these cows for the third time. I left  them in for 10 days and gave them 2 cc of Estumate when the CIDRs were pullled. All 10 cows had great heats  and all were AI bred. We were successful in moving 9 or the 10 to calve in March the next year.I cow was open in the fall.
I have heard that CIDrs sold in Canada have more product in them than those sold in the US. I normally only use them twice but I know the University here in SK has had some excellent tests using CIDRs that were used a 3rd time.

Since then I have used CIDRs and Estumate , on the occasional later calver to bring them back to calving closer to the majority of the herd.

 

[showgirl2010]

A few years ago, i kept 10 late calving cows ( all in May) on a few acres around our feedlot to keep the grass down for a few weeks after they calved. I had heard that CIDRs could be used more than once so i decided to experiment with these cows. The CIDRs I used had been used twice previously, and I used them in these cows for the third time. I left  them in for 10 days and gave them 2 cc of Estumate when the CIDRs were pullled. All 10 cows had great heats  and all were AI bred. We were successful in moving 9 or the 10 to calve in March the next year.I cow was open in the fall.
I have heard that CIDrs sold in Canada have more product in them than those sold in the US. I normally only use them twice but I know the University here in SK has had some excellent tests using CIDRs that were used a 3rd time.

Since then I have used CIDRs and Estumate , on the occasional later calver to bring them back to calving closer to the majority of the herd.

We have not had good luck with Cidrs.  Half of our cows were pushed back and now they are even worse because of last years drought.  We we sure to clean them well and took every precaution we possible could to using Cidrs.  So now we just go off natural heat or give them a shot and AI them.

Jamie

 

[shorthorns r us]

is it true that US CIDRs now have less hormone than b4?

 

[Jill]

A few years ago, i kept 10 late calving cows ( all in May) on a few acres around our feedlot to keep the grass down for a few weeks after they calved. I had heard that CIDRs could be used more than once so i decided to experiment with these cows. The CIDRs I used had been used twice previously, and I used them in these cows for the third time. I left  them in for 10 days and gave them 2 cc of Estumate when the CIDRs were pullled. All 10 cows had great heats  and all were AI bred. We were successful in moving 9 or the 10 to calve in March the next year.I cow was open in the fall.
I have heard that CIDrs sold in Canada have more product in them than those sold in the US. I normally only use them twice but I know the University here in SK has had some excellent tests using CIDRs that were used a 3rd time.

Since then I have used CIDRs and Estumate , on the occasional later calver to bring them back to calving closer to the majority of the herd.

We use CIDRs to sync our cows and I am sold on them, the question I have is why would the CIDR protocol bring them in quicker than a natural heat, isn't it when the body is ready to start cycling again?

 

[bradycreek]

So as Jill asked will a CIDR cause a cow to have a heat cycle after calving.....or is it only effective if she is already cycling?
don

 

[DL]

So as Jill asked will a CIDR cause a cow to have a heat cycle after calving.....or is it only effective if she is already cycling?
don

The label uses for CIDRs includes:
1. synch of estrus in suckled beef cows and replacement beef and dairy heifers
2. advancing the 1st post partum estrus in suckled beef cows
3. advancement of the 1st pubertal estrus in replacement beef cows
4. synch of the return of estrus in lactating dairy cows inseminated in the previous estrus

translated that means synching and jump starting estrus - so yes CIDRs can "encourage" a cow to cycle before "nature" tells her to. In fact one of the big selling points has been use in anestrus cows (noncycling cows). I have used CIDRs in late calving cows to get them more in line with the herd with good success.

sru - the Canadian CIDRs have 3 x the progesterone and the US have 2 x - meaning you could theoretically use the Canadian 3 times and the US twice. I don't think that has changed

 

[Dusty]

So as Jill asked will a CIDR cause a cow to have a heat cycle after calving.....or is it only effective if she is already cycling?
don

The label uses for CIDRs includes:
1. synch of estrus in suckled beef cows and replacement beef and dairy heifers
2. advancing the 1st post partum estrus in suckled beef cows
3. advancement of the 1st pubertal estrus in replacement beef cows
4. synch of the return of estrus in lactating dairy cows inseminated in the previous estrus

translated that means synching and jump starting estrus - so yes CIDRs can "encourage" a cow to cycle before "nature" tells her to. In fact one of the big selling points has been use in anestrus cows (noncycling cows). I have used CIDRs in late calving cows to get them more in line with the herd with good success.

sru - the Canadian CIDRs have 3 x the progesterone and the US have 2 x - meaning you could theoretically use the Canadian 3 times and the US twice. I don't think that has changed

I thought CIDRs were one time use only...