Maine Anjou------What's up?

[knabe]

maybe it's the angus in them that cause the altitude problems and not the maine.

http://jas.fass.org/cgi/content/short/86/4/815

angus, the defect free breed

 

[cattlemanr]

Must be an Iowa issue because the Denver Bright Lights sale was very solid, Bushy Park had a great on-line sale with a couple high sellers and a lot of bulls in that 4K to 8K range(saw them and they were good).  The 3 Consignment sales in SD were very solid sales(Black Hills Stock Show, Sioux Empire Farm Show, and Watertown Winter Farm Show).  Maine-Anjou genetics today are more functional and productive than any other time in history.  There are a lot of black hided "fancy" Feeder cattle sold that are Maine influenced yet no one knows they are Maine-Anjou bred cattle, not to mention the enormous role they play in the club calf industry.  Where would the club calf industry be if it wasn't for bulls like Cunia, Power Plant, Stilts, Chill Factor,Strictly Business, Ali, Irish Whiskey...just to name a few.  Why, if your raising show cattle without some Maine Anjou in your cows are you really raising show cattle?

 

[chevelle]

I went threw the Maine-Anjou alley at the expo they were easily the worst breed there.  I think there is a place for their cattle in the commercial and show worlds, but this set of cattle were horrible.  I would be embarassed, the commitee has to do something.  Last year they even sold a one nutted bull, you are never going to attracted any commercial breeders after the last two years.

 

[Sammy]

what I posted earlier was from conversations with several large cow-calf guys and guys that market hundreds of bulls that were getting off the maine sired bulls and I asked why -  there are good ones and bad ones in all breeds - it is about perception of potential buyers - where is there any substantial commercial demand for shorthorn bulls, chi bulls, limmy bulls and some other breeds? - and it is reflected in the sales - despite there being some really good ones in all of those breeds that could help practically any commercial herd - unfortunately too many folks try to market bulls that are simply not good enough and it comes back around - you see it in Angus sales too but the power of the marketing helps sell even the common ones and to some extent the Simmentals are getting that way now as the breed is so hot - I am not saying it is good or bad but just the way it is and you have to recognize that when you are trying to sell a product be it cattle or cars -  we all have to try to sell what we have -

 

[johnmetzger]

ttt

 

[knabe]

perhaps the association should tout commercial maine's or maine influence commercial herds.

 

[olsun]

I have spoken to Dave Steen about this several years ago, and he said that commercial Maines were his goal.

 

[Telos]

There are Maine genetics that fit in well with what the commercial industry wants and needs. I sometimes question how connected the showring is with a commercial operator.

Show cattle are judged on comparisons. It is more about total dimension and mass which can come with issues that the commercial operator does not necessarily need. These cattle are no longer bred down the middle but are bred for extreme traits which can get counter productive.

There's an abundance of practical/functional genetics within the Maine breed but you may have to stop playing "follow the leader" to find them.

 

[Joe Boy]

Well said, Jack. 

Show cattle have been too pricey for the commercial breeders, too.  Commercial cattlemen are not interested in hype, but production and the bottom line.  They want cattle that require the least amount of maintenance.  They don't care if they are hairy or not, but they must be able to walk miles to water and feed, up and down hills, etc.  They do not want 100 BW's, but easy calving that do not have to be lived with to get a live calf. 

Seed stock breeders need to have records (honest records) on calving easy, growth, and how they finished in the feed lot.

Semi's might be the hot item now in the ring, as well as Charlotte's, but what the commercial guy wants and needs is something all should take note of........  even in the show ring we need to have functionable cattle, pigs, sheep, goats, etc.  I saw a breeding  pig show where the winner had the best looking body, but weak pasterns and it still won.  (Pig people in Texas are feeding a substance in Texas that needs to be band.)  WE have calves that the feed turn out, don't have a good stride, have pones of fat on them, holes filled in with hair, etc. and the cattle industry doesn't want that.  They want a medium size cow that has a calf that grows.  Some show cattle have to be fed too long to be profitable.    The judge at Fort Worth was easy to follow, but he is as wrong as can be on what you want a feedlot full of.  The industry wants a small calf at birth that will grow and be finished in 14 months between 1050-1250, not 1500.  When we Maine breeders have that product we will sale all our bulls.  I think we have that kind of bull but he is not the one who is bringing the big prices at the sales.

 

[hamburgman]

I am sorry, but i do not know where the fat ate 1250 comes from.  I have said it before in my area loads weighing under 1350 are unheard of and loads under 1400 are just about as rare.  Calves are going to town bigger because they can put weight on better than in the past and you need to keep putting on those cheap gravy pounds to make any money.

 

[knabe]

can we have some sale reports?

 

[Joe Boy]

A year and 4 months ago I have sold 20 first and second calf heifers and young cows that were either 1/2, 3/4 or PB Maines.  I am still getting calls from those who bought them asking me about their breeding and what I thought about them keeping some of the calves as bulls.  One had always raised Angus and he said he had never had an Angus heifer to raise a calf with as must top and butt in it that grew like the calves out of my Maine heifers.  (They were all bred to a 3/4 Maine son of Ali) If I sell bulls commerically, I don't get them fat just run them on the pasture with a little hay and cubes.  I have never had to haul one to the sale barn.  I don't advertize them, just run them beside the highway.  One guy came back and told me the calves came so small that he thought his bull must not be a Maine, but when he sold them they weighed out heavier than they ever had.  He was going to sell the bull before he weighed his calves.  His cows are a little of everything and not too pretty, but they make him money.

 

[Joe Boy]

Cabinnas told us they will dock everything over 1320.

 

[hamburgman]

Who is Cabinnas and where are they located?  I am just wondering i have never heard of that company before.

 

[CAB]

I am sorry, but i do not know where the fat ate 1250 comes from.  I have said it before in my area loads weighing under 1350 are unheard of and loads under 1400 are just about as rare.  Calves are going to town bigger because they can put weight on better than in the past and you need to keep putting on those cheap gravy pounds to make any money.

With $7 corn, those last pounds are far from the gravy gain. Feed conversion will fall way off @ those higher weights. Here in the midwest there are some very substancial price docks for heavy carcasses. I think that over 950 lbs is a $30/100 dock. Yeah the packers do like those kind of deals!!

 

[TJR]

Who is this "packer" that docks everything over 1320#?  I don't know of any packer(that I'm familiar with) that will dock cattle at that weight.  The standard for several years has been 1000# carcasses, which equates back to around 1500-1550 live weight.  With feed costs where they are at today, more cattle are being sent to slaughter at lighter weights.

 

[farmin female]

Who is Cabinnas and where are they located?  I am just wondering i have never heard of that company before.

I am going to take a stab here and guess that he was talking about Caviness (sp?) in the panhandle of Texas. 

I do have to agree though, being involved in show, raising commercial cattle and having a hubby in the meat industry for over 30 years, that the beef industry requires a moderate sized cow that can spit out a small  to medium sized calf (all on her own) and that calf has to grow like a bad weed on miracle grow.  And the optimum fat weight is around 1250 lbs - like it or not.  When a judge spouts out how an animal will fit in a box, he is talking about something that is a real life requirement.  Whether the judge actually knows that or not is another story.  But once a carcass passes a certain "size" it takes more work in the packing plant to process that animal.  And the cuts out of it don't fit the machines, the meat trays, the box, anything.  My husband just groans when he sees one of those monster kneed 1500 lb show steers win a show.  All he sees is a 120 lb calf someone had to pull and/or almost killed the cow doing it and then huge bone that adds loss to the carcass and goes in the bone barrel after you threw your back out pushing the carcass around.  Nothing but work and loss.

 

[Sammy]

was just looking at" Nebraska Weekly Direct Slaughter Cattle - Negotiated Prices" for last week online - could not figure out how to link the site to this board - so anyone interested can Google it -Nebraska  live sales of 9,000+ steers AVERAGE wt of 1394 - on almost 18,000 head sold on rail average carcass of 866 so also about 1400 live - so they must must have gotten some bigger boxes -

 

[hamburgman]

I wonder if the difference in weights is coming from our regional differences. Around me distillers products are used and readily available making $7 (which most ppl i know lock in their inputs for the year) less of an issue, but still an issue.

 

[hamburgman]

http://www.sfrlinc.com/site/index.php?id=3  Market report from Sioux Falls regional, not to many 1250 fats sold there, but like i said i wonder if this isn't a regional thing.