Maine Bull Stinger...I need some information

[Telos]

Knabe, you know Novino was never tested. He is the sire or grand sire of many imports. He is a French bull who stayed in France.

Doing great DL. Good to finally see some discussion. I'm talking about the cow which is the grand daughter of the Cheston bred cow. Probably a cow that lived in France maybe England and would not have a recorded pedigree in North America.

I know Dalton was tested a carrier and see Dalton in most Black Maine pedigrees. Or should I say Black Maine pedigrees that I like. Probably in 90% of pedigrees. What I find interesting is not one case  of a PHAC where Dalton was responsible for that carrier status. There are literally hundreds of matings using Cunia, Etulason, Covino III etc. on Dalton bred cows and on every single observation not one animal a carrier. Every carrier is either from Paramount (DraftPick, Icepick, Whiskeys etc.), Stinger or Payback based gnetics. Can't find a single carrier in the Maine registry that is a result of Dalton. I know I haven't seen all pedigrees, but...

 

[DL]

Glad to hear that telos - been a long time since we talked old Maine pedigrees

I have a vague recollection that we eliminated Novino about the same time we eliminated Covino III, Black Gold, Epinal etc (the last 3 by test) so I thought we had tested him - we certainly were able to find some ancient Maine semen - I will have to dig out those old notes

The genetics tell us that both Stinger and Payback derived the mutation from Dalton - where he got it who knows? It also tells us that all 3 "modern" bulls (Draftpick, Stinger, Payback) got the mutation at about the same time - ie about 4 generations back - you can see that with DP -. we know that Nortex General, Midas and Black Gold and Cunia  are PHAF (tested free) so it must have come from 535P --> 264K ---> Paramount. Although the cows were not tested this is the only scenario that makes sense.

Payback doesn't have much Maine in him and who it is is unknown.

Most but not all of the PHAC in Shorthorn go back to Stinger often through the  AHL STNGRMYFLWR II822 cow.

There are certainly times when the over hundred year pedigree in the Angus is useful

 

[knabe]

You can get pedigrees from France but you have to pull teeth.

There are a couple of older breeders still around including the one who bred vainqueur.